Forum Topics CAA CAA CEO Meeting

Pinned straw:

Added a month ago

When a company trades below its net tangible asset value, let alone a profitable, dividend-paying one with a 90yr history, it feels too good to be true. And maybe it is? The market can do some dumb things at times, but it is not often that dumb. So while I think Capral is interesting in a lot of ways, it is something my spidey senses say I should approach carefully.

I am certainly not trying to frame it in a negative light. It really could be a great buy at current prices. I am just very curious as to what is so bad about it that the market does not like. Because if the market is being overly pessimistic, maybe there's an opportunity here.

In a lot of ways, the answer seems somewhat obvious. It is capital heavy, low margin, cyclical, and exposed to commodity and FX price fluctuations. It competes against players that benefit from much lower costs and carries negative ESG connotations given the carbon intensity of its sector. Oh, and as Tony said, the company very nearly went bankrupt 17 years ago thanks to some poor decisions.

But in a way, it is because those are all so obvious that you start to wonder not if the negatives are real, but if they have been accounted for too much.

The counter-argument could be that the board has learned its lesson, has built a fortress balance sheet, and is making productivity-enhancing investments that will strengthen its footing. This should allow it to ride out any near-term headwinds such that it can benefit from an inevitable, but hard to time, building boom to address the property shortfall. Because of tax losses, they also will not be paying any tax for another four to five years.

Also, the trailing PE is in the single digits and shares have a bit of a bid under them in a thinly traded market thanks to the buyback program.

It's a tough one. Keen to hear what otehrs think.

Transcript is here: Capral transcript.pdf

Dominator
Added a month ago

Thanks @Strawman for organising the meeting and asking all my questions.

I often ask the question too. What am I missing this seems too obvious? But I'm starting to realise this is often a good time to invest as long has you have a clear understanding of the risks and where you may be wrong. I find its best to have some KPIs that will show you are right over time and get out if your version of the story is wrong. Some examples for me in recent times:

  • I started buying Google at around $100 because I didn't believe search would go away because of AI and the data they have is extremely valuable for creating models. They also have their own TPUs so aren't paying Nvidia premium on all chips they buy.
  • One I missed recently because it was "too obvious" was Micron (MU). Share price is up 700-800% as of today (less than 1 year). Saw some information about how there will be a shortage and thought all the people in the know would have bought by now if this was real! Basically it has done an NVIDIA since and NTM PE is still under 10... Still a good time to buy? No idea...


So what does this have to do with Capral?

To me for Capral the "it's obvious" was:

  • What my returns are going to be. All they need to do is go sideways! At the current PE of just under 6 you are getting "owner earnings" of 16.6+%. That's not adjusting for the cash, so EV/E is even more. Probably in 20%.
  • Management is backstopping the share price with a buy back below NTA, has heaps of cash to execute the buy back.
  • Capral isn't going under quickly. They have a pile of spare cash ready to go.
  • Underfollowed, boring, previous near death experience and disregarded is why no one wants to buy.
  • You cant recreate this business without very significant capital and no one is likely going to spend that amount of money to compete with such a low margin business.


I see my Capral investment as a case of heads I win at least my required return of 15%pa compound (if not more) and tails I loss a little give the NTA backstop. Currently this "very boring business" has returned me 22%pa in RL beating my expectations.

When am I out:

  • Management capital allocation changes - I want to see distributions back.
  • Long term share price trend line broken - trading rules I run by and given the NTA backstop this shouldn't be broken without decline in the business.
  • Significant deterioration in the business. IE it has to go worse than sideways.

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