Cheers @Strawman and @occy
The rabbit-hole certainly gets deeper. Have recently reached the stage where apparently everything I own is vulnerable to attack and and I need something called Electrum because a public server is a total no-go…
Anyway, an original Trezor, aye? Would’ve loved to be buying back in those days. Alas, pretty sure I was in middle school when those things started coming out :)
Ultimately, went with a coldcard. But setting it up got me introduced to the whole multi/single-sig custody approaches and got me thinking about the multi-sig nature of custody. Like, I wasn’t actually aware that you can pretty much pay a company to hold one of your signatures on your behalf (effectively, if you ever stuff up/someone steals yours, there’s another being held for you to prevent unauthorised wallet access). I am still on the fence about this.
Doesn’t giving another party (basically half, arguably total) influence over your keys almost defeat the purpose of self custody anyway? Although I think you’re right, Andrew, if the value of the wallet ever got large enough, would probably consider the further multi-sig approach.
Makes me think of some weird future, where, although you might self custody with your own wallet, you might also pay fees to a Commonwealth Bank, for example, to hold a signature - requiring both the institution and your approval to spend, maybe even make investments, using the BTC. This kind of puts one foot in the self custody camp, but also the other goes into the “trusted” third party camp. Scenario that might alleviate the general opposition toward being in complete control (and completely responsible) for your money.
A quick post considering the ever-increasing interest in Bitcoin.
I have been a small but steady on-loader of Bitcoin now for a couple of years - I treat it like a savings technology and slowly DCA a small part of my income into it. Irrespective, I had recently myself (long overdue) decided to move my holdings off an exchange and onto a hardware wallet.
Additionally, I have been begging my partner to put the tiniest amount of spare capital she can afford to lose into BTC and she has finally agreed to put a negligible amount aside. However, when she asked me how, I kind of didn’t really know what to say. Ultimately, I have, generally, told her to simply buy some shares in a Bitcoin tracking ETF to avoid the mind-@uc$ of self-custody (because I have found self-custody intimidates a lot of people).
But, it made me wonder what are the methods of custody that people on Strawman use? I do understand that this topic is somewhat sensitive, given that I’m basically asking “what model of bank vault are you currently using to store your money?” Even general, non-specific, answers would be appreciated, as, annoyingly, I am now receiving an uptick in interest from friends and family (the same friends and family that have endured my bitcoin nagging for ages) as the price/attention surges.
My simple question - how would you tell a “layperson” to invest in Bitcoin?
I could not ever give the recommendation to long-term hold on an exchange for anything over a couple grand worth (despite my own shameful decision to custody with an exchange for ages and ages, it’s just too risky to suggest).
The notion of self custody seems to make a lot of people (perhaps understandably) very anxious and switch off quite quickly.
Is, therefore, the best answer just to direct them to something like VBTC? I wouldn’t personally own this, unless the option to directly hold BTC was unavailable, so I feel weird about recommending it to anyone, but it’s better than scaring them off by placing the sole responsibility on them, no?
Overall, I guess I’m envisioning my dreaded future where, in about 5 days, the whole family is gathered around the BBQ and they’re asking me about that “silly bitcoin thing” and maybe now they’re actually interested but “I don’t understand how it all works…”
So I start trying to explain about seed phrases, proof of work, mnemonics, blockchain- and bam! -I’ve already lost you…
Unless you’re already interested in this kind of stuff, most people sort of disengage and end up not getting involved at all because it all sounds so scary, at least from my experience. To be honest, it was pretty scary for me when I was first learning it, I can only imagine a (more mature, shall we say) person trying to get their head around this stuff.
side-note,
Forgive my ignorance, but I was wondering how exactly these ETFs work, security-wise.
Does the ETF provider actually have to maintain a certain amount of BTC or does it simply track the BTC price and, really, the guarantee here is the CHESS-ASX system, as opposed to anything that the ETF provider does explicitly?
Perhaps I’m being stupid, just wondering if the cryptocurrency element altered any of the obligations, as opposed to, say, a regular ASX200 ETF - considering the actual asset cannot be controlled by government, has relatively strict supply and is “different” compared to regular equities.
This may really throw me under the bus as a complete moron - but I was under the impression that an ETF provider basically creates a portfolio of assets (based off an index, for example) and allows you then to essentially buy a share in a holding that is comprised of many companies. Does this then mean that the ETF provider actually holds BTC or is it CHESS sponsorship that provides security? Or am I completely wrong?
Cheers for any feedback.