Forum Topics Exploring the Founder Myth
Solvetheriddle
Added 9 months ago

EXPLORING THE FOUNDER MYTH

Investing is a complex business, and many try and simplify a message to get a point across. The ability to convey complex subjects succinctly and simply is a rare skill and worth a lot in the industry. With it usually comes a compromise of the subject matter and often a misunderstanding. These messages operate at the helicopter level and don’t deal with the nuance and detail so critical in the art of investing, imo. For example, take the word “value” investing. What does that mean to the average punter? I would answer so many things that it is almost meaningless to use. This blurb explores the much-used founder myth as a way to investing nirvana. All my own opinions and comments, so beware-could be wrong.

The theory is built on the premise that investing alongside founders is a low-risk way to invest in the share market and will deliver much outperformance. Some statistics are often forwarded to support that theory, but I have seen statistics that show the theory in a favourable light and a less favourable light. I am wary of statistics that could be skewed by outliers. For example, anything with PME in its base universe is going to skew returns in the Australian context, I would think. Eg companies formed in Richmond Vic, outperform, the stats clearly show it. Lol.

Over the long term, which is what I am interested in here, within the vast majority of cases, a company adds value by increasing assets while maintaining a high ROI (or any other measure with returns above its cost of capital). That about includes everything, can it grow assets and maintain high returns, that’s what you want. We may add competent and honest management, but in my mind, that will ultimately be reflected in returns, but is a useful future indicator.

My first investing experience was the 1980’s, during that tumultuous time of massive deregulation of the markets, a new breed of manager arose, the entrepreneur. These were founder operators, skilled in the new-fangled corporate finance, able to understand wealth creation, unlike the moribund management of the 1970s. they cleaned out the old managers. They were extremely highly regarded in the industry and the markets. Names like Holmes a Court, Spalvins, Brierley, Skase, Elliott plus a large number of smaller imitators. (ok I admit “Bondy” was never really considered special). The ASX even created an “Entrepreneurs” index, and at its peak, five of the top ten companies on the ASX by market cap were entrepreneurs.  The point I'm making here was that they were heralded, had skin in the game, considered the forefront of the new era, were founders….and they all came a huge cropper. Is this cherry picking? Maybe, but it's a big cherry. What went wrong? simply, the above definition of adding real value was not met; the asset accumulation, built off excessive debt, was not value creating; it was, in the end, paper shuffling and the much-anticipated fruits were never really produced. Blindly following founders, which many did in the 1980’S, can be caught out big time.

When we examine the above definition of adding long term value it gives us clues why a founder model may be a safe guard but not always. If we agree adding value is running assets well to optimise returns and add assets above the cost of capital, what is it the givers founders an advantage over professional managers. In terms of the knowledge required to operate a business better in day to day operations, maybe the founder knows the business well enough to know a good deal from a poor one, how expensive it is to run a line, fill capacity and the million other details to run a business. To know what matters and what doesn’t. that is true, but what about the next generation of family owner of the businesses, that skill may not be hereditary. Secondly, there are outside managers who have also managed and know businesses exceptionally well, and they can be hired and, if appropriately incentivised, can pretty much replicate the owner/operator. Operational excellence is a possible differentiator, but probably marginalises over time.

That leaves capital allocation and a possible differentiator. Does a founder add more value than a professional manager when it comes to acquisitions? We can narrow that definition to large acquisitions as bolt-ons, I think, are more difficult to measure, do less damage and maybe some good. We are talking about large transitional acquisitions here. The benefit here, imo, is in the negative stance, ie founders adds value by being much more cautious when it comes to transformative acquisitions than professional management. What does that mean? Professional managers are incentivised to operate large operations, they enhance their salary and prestige. The founder usually doesn’t care about that, they have too much wealth in the base business and probably expect to hand that over to the next generation.

As a complete aside, I would be very weary of ‘skin in the game” when it comes to insider transactions. Being that although a founder may own 30% of the company, he may “own” 100% of the other side of a transaction. Numerous non-arm 's-length transactions, are of course , a red flag, even for founders.

Back to transformational acquisitions. These can be specifically targeted as the case for any differential in performance, imo. They are large, so they change shareholder wealth by a significant amount, and there are incentives to enact these that are not aligned with shareholders. Does this favour the founder model? Perhaps. However, does it mean that all large transformational acquisitions should be intensely scrutinised? absolutely. Of course, no management team is going to come out and say we just blew up a huge amount of shareholder wealth, they will have an attractive, seducing presentation justifying their actions. Shareholders should be aware that this is a pivotal moment in the company's history and may repeat every 5 years or so, yes, I'm looking at you, old BHP (they have many friends).

Am I convinced of the founder model? That is first-order thinking; it is easy and sits well. the real issue, imo, is the proper allocation of capital over time. By doing less or nothing, the founder comes out ahead. Winning by default is always an interesting proposition because it highlights the real issue at hand. Scrutinise every deal, remember the stats, deals outside the area of expertise, so a new market is risky, followed by offshore acquisitions in an area of expertise and then the less risky smaller bolt-ons in your established position. The offshore acquisition into a new industry—yikes, very low hit rate. There are guidelines not guaranteed to work.

Therefore, I like founders as long as they bat within the crease. pick off the occasional boundary. Dancing down the wicket stretches the friendship.


That’s my spiel







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lowway
Added 9 months ago

Nice Spiel @Solvetheriddle I reckon you've touched on some very salient points in your post.

Personally, I've always liked a founder (surely all actual founders have some entrepreneurial skills to get things up and running) that understood his or her limitations (probably rules out a fair few of the bigger founders; Ellison, Twiggy, etc). Sure you need an ego and self-confidence to get an SME off the ground, plus you definitely have to be a jack of all trades master of none thanks to the huge learning experience you face and no thanks to bureaucracy. That's all great until you start to grow into a real business when, as a founding partner or individual, you still need to be a jack of all trades, but it's imperative you surround yourself with masters of these trades.

Capital allocation seems to be a tricky trade to master and as you rightly pointed out, possibly the key to business success.

BTW these are just my thoughts as well, based on my own business experiences. Luckily I had some good people around me and sold when I felt I was getting out of my depth as the business grew beyond an SME and I didn't have the ability to "keep up".

So in short, I love a smart founder that is fully aware of their limitations and reacts accordingly.

Anyone want to nominate contenders that fit this description?

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Bear77
Added 9 months ago

The two that immediately come to mind, for me, are both gold company founders, (big surprise, eh!) and they're founders in the sense that they came in and took a struggling little shell of a company in both cases and used it to build out a very succesful gold mining company using their entrepreneurial mindset and their own vision, however they both soon employed a CEO to run the company and they moved into an executive Chairman role on their respective Boards, leaving the day-to-day running of the company to the CEOs, the geology teams, etc., remaining focused on smart counter-cyclical M&A and value-adding to take mediocre assets and make substantial improvements to increase productivity and reduce costs and either turn those assets into Tier One assets or sell them at a profit. They were both very good at improving the quality of their respective suite of mines over time.

The first is Bill Beament at NST, who has now moved on to run DVP, and the second is Jake Klein at EVN, who is about to transition into a non-executive role at Evolution. Raleigh Finlayson at Saracen and then Genesis (GMD) was a contender, however he is far more hands-on, and I don't know that he has many limitations, whereas I've heard both Bill and Jake speak about surrounding themselves with smarter people than themselves who know how to do their own jobs a lot better than what Bill and Jake could do in their place. That's certainly in the spirit of what we're talking about here I think. Not trying to do everything, but rather being aware that your expertise lies mostly in the bigger picture stuff, the strategy and the M&A and other important capital allocation decisions associated with growth, and employing others to do the everyday and other stuff a lot better than you could do.

I like that a lot - when the founders remain involved during the main growth phase of the company but concentrate on the big picture stuff and employ CEOs and other managers to do the everyday management stuff - i.e. allowing the founders to focus on their vision and the implementation of that vision, and not have to worry about the day to day decisions and issues. Of course that all depends on them employing good people rather than duds, but most good founders have enough alignment of interest to ensure they have competent managers working for them. Particularly when most of their personal net worth is tied up in that company; It's a great motivator to employ really good people in those roles.

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Solvetheriddle
Added 9 months ago

@lowway thanks for replying. it speaks to a certain set of strong competencies and, therefore, a sweet spot in the evolution of the business. at some point, the risk/reward changes and a time for an investor rethink imo.

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Solvetheriddle
Added 9 months ago

@Bear77 i havnet met Bill but heard him speak, have met Jake a few times, and he is a capital allocator. to me his specialty is feeding off large company changes in strategy or jettisoning mines too small for them etc. EVN is also willing to change the portfolio, JK is a good operator, not that many mistakes.

As they say, "A's" hire A's, and B's hire C's and D's. good founders are not too slow in realising when they have made an error and acting.

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Strawman
Added 9 months ago

Excellent post @Solvetheriddle -- there's a lot of heuristics that are helpful, but you certainly have to go beyond the surface level stuff.

Also, I 100% agree with this: "...a company adds value by increasing assets while maintaining a high ROI (or any other measure with returns above its cost of capital). That about includes everything, can it grow assets and maintain high returns, that’s what you want."

The key here, and this is something that took me too long to realise, is that profits, or even an increase in profits from one year to the next, is obviously what you want -- but that is downstream of capital formation / asset accumulation, and the rate of profit growth is a function of return on investment. And you need to think broader than just a one year period, far batter to consider the internal rate of return over the life of the asset.

Of course, there's a big gap between this conceptual framework and practically identifying companies that can deliver on this. But framing it this way at least points the way.

15

edgescape
Added 9 months ago

@Bear77 I think Bill Beament was offered the role of MD/Executive Director at Northern Star on the provision that he could get a gold mining project for the company instead of gold exploration. So Bill was not the founder of Northern Star, he just had a helping hand in transforming the company.

So let's go back in time - to 2003!!!

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Ian Chalmers and Terry Ransted is the founding director of Northern Star (see below)

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So Northern Star listed at 20c in 2003 as a gold explorer but the company came close to collapsing during the GFC just as Bill came in. He then raised funds to acquire mining projects on their last legs the usual way by selling assets (one was a exploration tenement with some "mining assets" but Bill later found it only had a tool shed on site!) and raising equity at 1c a share.

After that the rest is history. There are a few podcasts that provide more detail into his story.

It's a pity he hasn't yet replicated the same performance at Develop - they again mention him a founder but then Develop was originally Venturex Resources founded by Anthony Reilly

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Bear77
Added 9 months ago

All correct @edgescape - which is why I said in the first sentence of my post: "...they're founders in the sense that they came in and took a struggling little shell of a company in both cases and used it to build out a very succesful gold mining company using their entrepreneurial mindset and their own vision."

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edgescape
Added 9 months ago

I agree with entrepreneurial more with Bill Beament.Plus he seems to surround himself with good people.

We also should add those that are yet to find success.

Compumedics CEO David Burton springs to mind (CMP). He also really needs to find someone or some fund willing to take his huge shareholding as well.

Although as I write, the CMP share price has come alive again and soared above my exit price!

But for me I'd rather sleep at night than worry about some founder with some great ideas that is still struggling to execute or willing to get help from outside - the complete absence of independent directors has to be the big detractor.

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