Hi @skaex

I've seen this floating around and honestly, I’ve chucked it in the ‘too hard basket’. I’m extremely bullish on Bitcoin, but I haven’t bought into this or even Strategy (formerly MicroStrategy). I tend to think that just buying the underlying asset and letting time do its thing will work out fine - I don’t need the extra complexity (aka: stress or work keeping track of how 'things' are performing and what action I need to take next).

Will not getting on board with MSTY cost me money? Maybe. Will not buying MicroStrategy cost me money? Maybe. But I’m comfortable with that as I think the asset (Bitcoin) is going to do extremely well without me needing to get cute.

While not a perfect analogy, one example of trying to get clever instead of just buying the asset are the double or even triple-leveraged ETFs for the NASDAQ. I’m sure some folks have done well with these, but while the gains are magnified, so are the losses when (not if) the market drops. Way to hard for me, I am just not smart enough.

So for now, I’m putting MSTY, and even MicroStrategy (sorry Uncle Michael!), in the ‘too hard’ basket, and I’ll just keep dollar-cost averaging into Bitcoin each quarter.

Disclaimer: Bitcoin is my largest holding, so my views are biased and full of self-interest.

Hi @BigStrawbs70 , I share a similar philosophy on BTC. Ever since I heard "Uncle Michael" passionately narrate the history of money about five years ago — what a revelation that was! Where had I been living before then? Once you see it, you can't unsee it :). I wish I had gotten in earlier — alas, it's never too late. I've been DCA’ing into the asset every month, or whenever it dips.

That said, it’d be great to earn some income without having to sell the underlying asset. I’m sure more options will pop up soon—though yeah, some are just straight-up Ponzi schemes (looking at you, Celsius). Honestly, those are in the “too hard basket” for me too. But I do think everything will keep getting more expensive, and the yields from all kinds of assets will probably trend lower over time.

I might just buy a small parcel and see how it goes :).

I'd suggest caution @skaex. I head a Motley Fool Money episode (US podcast), talking about this. In broadform, the issue as I understand it, is that Strategy doesn't own much other than bitcoin. It has other businesses, but they aren't particularly material. On latest I could find, I think they have c. 540,000 BTC or about $55B at today's value. About $10B in debt, so net assets of $44B, but a market cap exceeding $100B. So a major overvaluation question. Not sure where your dividend calc's come from - at least on the research I've seen it doesn't pay one...

Hi @rh8178 , appreciate your input on this—I agree with you regarding MicroStrategy (MSTR). MSTY, however, is a different product. It's a managed fund that seeks to generate income by selling call options on MSTR. The numbers seem surreal (and possibly too good to last), but they are publicly available.

Here’s a link to MSTY’s historical dividend data:

https://www.intelligentinvestor.com.au/shares/nyse-msty/yieldmax-mstr-option-income-strategy-etf/dividends

These products are certainly risky, and I wouldn’t consider participating without fully understanding what I’m buying. That said, curiosity has led me to explore the intricacies of these unique funds. YieldMax also offers ETFs for Tesla and NVIDIA, which use a similar options strategy to MSTY, focused on generating income from their respective underlying stocks.

Ahhh. My bad. I assume the ETF owns the stock to employ this strategy. The yield comes from the amount the ETF has invested in the stock vs what you can achieve from options premiums received from selling calls. Interesting strategy, given the valuation mismatch I raised earlier. Problem will be if the stock price falls and stays down, you lose capital value of the stock the fund holds to get that yield from the call option premiums the ETF keeps...if the price rises the stock gets called and you miss the upside...what you really want is the price to stay the same for the period of the option...

@rh8178 @skaex

All micro strategy, now Strategy's quarterly updates are available on YouTube and his most recent one was two hours explaining these products.

Just because professional investors, like the American Motley Fool, have an idea or thesis, does not mean it's gospel or correct, Warren Buffett has even made bad calls. The pros don't always know and you can't get reward without risk.

@skaex i added MSTY to my portfolio early April 2025 when MSTR was in the low to mid $200 USD (MSTY average price $20).

The dividend yield is very impressive and like you look at it as being to good to be true.

From a income perspective its very compelling and looking into it have confidence the trend of the past 14months can continue.

My take on MSTY is that over the next 3-5years if the following remains true MSTY will continue to distribute solid dividends with its price remaining stable.

1. Increasing Bitcoin adoption and thus price rising thus MSTR share price rising at a faster rate
2. Implied volatility to be approx 2x greater than the average Mag7 and major indices

If these two assumptions remain true liquidity in MSTR will remain high and the spread on options that MSTY can write is higher than the Mag7 or major indices such as QQQ, thus enabling the dividends to be paid.

My assumptions are that allowing for the 15% withholding tax from US government and relevant Australian Tax to be paid a 3%-5% monthly yield is my expectation or annually 30%-50%.

The May 2025 distribution was $2.37USD per share which is approx 9.5% yield net.

What i found very interesting is when Bitcoin price fell by 25% in early March 2025 the distributions still were at $1.34 .

As with any investment please do your own research as this product is not for everyone.

Hope this adds to the discussion.

Disc : Holder of BTC, MSTY, MSTR

Thanks for sharing your experience holding MSTY @wtsimis. Definitely need to do some homework. But I need to get to that 1 BTC first hahaha...unfortunately I wasn't "lucky" enough to get in early.

@skaex But you're humble enough to start. Mad respect. not many pass that EQ test

@Saasquatch I remember dismissing it the first time I heard about it... but that was mainly due to a lack of knowledge. No one in my circle talked about the White Paper—just that it was a highly volatile 'ponzi coin' :). But one day I decided to do my own research. I read the White Paper, and shortly after, I came across the What is Money? show by Robert Breedlove. Luckily, I started with the Saylor Series—and I was hooked!

What? Austrian School of Economics? What’s that? Wait, the fiat monetary system is a ponzi scheme? I’ve never stopped learning since. And once you see it, you can’t unsee it.

I think anyone who’s curious about the monetary system and its history—and listens to the Saylor Series—would be humble enough to start digging deeper. There was no way I wasn’t going to keep going after all of that :). And I don’t think I’ll ever stop. Every month, I own more than the previous one.

(Of course, not investment advice.)

I dismissed it in 2016, 2017, 2020, 2023.

I viewed it as a ponzi tulip, and remained fixated on purchasing Australian real estate. I bought Lyn Alden's book after listening to my first Preston Pysh podcast, I'd always skipped those podcasts and just listened to the mainstream investor pods on the same channel. At the start of 2024, I thought I better try to read that book through after it became inevitable that the etfs were to launch.

My very basic thesis was that new money coming in in abundance from access to the open public US market would mean it would probably double from where it was. I put in a relatively sizable amount at the time, and nothing happened for a few months while I ingested more information and the books on Bitcoin. As my knowledge grew my addiction grew and I became hooked. It made so much sense.

It's amazing how we invest this thing called money into things that we have no idea about really how they work like the insides of a penny stock company and yet we never question the fundamentals of the thing we are trying to make grow...money.

Breedlove and Saylor series, I dismissed in January 24 as I couldn't stand Michael's voice... This was before micro strategy's rise. In April 24, I gave it another go and devoured it. From that moment I began preaching to my friends and family about the integrity behind this thing, still no one listens, still they mock, and still my conviction grows.

It is absolutely impossible to unsee once it is seen. There is no cure for this addiction.

Bitcoin brings a soundness to money and a scarcity to wealth storage, it is inevitable in my opinion. There will always be the Scott Phillips, chief investment officer of The Motley fool Australia who have no interest in looking but will give their opinions nonetheless.

It takes courage to stand out from the herd and it takes proof of work to gather the conviction to stand behind an idea with all of your knowledge and wealth. Keep stacking legend.

Well said @Saasquatch -- i feel much the same way. For me it's gone from technical curiosity to ponzi to a thing that has a few interesting use-cases to something that will inevitably the neutral global reserve asset and a foundation for civilisational prosperity. I put it up there with the printing press, magna carta and the internet in terms of what it means for humanity.

I still cringe when i say stuff like that because I'm hyper aware of how hyperbolic it sounds. But when you examine it in good faith it really is a conclusion that's hard to escape. As Saylor says, no one that's spent 100+ hours researching it has ever come away bearish.

As you say, impossible to unsee once it is seen.

It does me no favours professionally or, frankly, personally, to be an outspoken advocate. For most people I get that it's a distraction or for some no doubt an annoyance -- people didnt join Strawman to talk "CrYpTo" (which, for the record, I am dead against -- virtually every other token/blockchain is at best a niche tech project, and most likely an outright affinity scam.)

But I don't think I've ever had higher conviction on an asset and if all I can do is encourage people to take a genuine look with an open mind, I'll take that as a win.

Agree 100% on everyone's sentiments and outlook concerning once you see this credit based system for what it is and then understand Bitcoin and Austrian economics its very hard to unsee .

I met up with a close friend last week and after several years (since 2020) of discussion Bitcoin and buying him a Cold Wallet for Christmas 3years ago has done nothing . He is a educated tradfi investor with a Keynesian view of the world. We discussed all the aspects that would get you to look into Bitcoin such as, inflation, government spending and debt, free markets, printing of money, immigration, reduced standards of lining and of course the property performance in Australia. I wished him well and if he sought to chat further to reach out. If Bitcoin continues this adoption curve he will embrace it but the price will be higher and thats what works for him.

Bitcoin I sense will simply take a greater share of the $$ that get printed compared to stocks , real estate , bonds etc as more and more people simply understanding its hardness and protection it provides against inflation . This will see its performance year on year rise far greater than any other asset class. What the test for us all is to embrace the volatility that comes with it. Pull back present opportunities to add.

Life simply gets cheaper on a BITCOIN standard.

Having sat in on the quarterly conference by Strategy last week Micheal Saylor's intent to penetrate the fixed asset market is clear and huge opportunity. The ability to offer STRF and SRTK at a 8% and 10% respectively annual yield in perpetuity is unheard of in let alone the low risk it offers. These products performance just like MSTY are there for all to see and haven't even been rated by Moody's or Standard & Poor's to be able to be held by fixed investment funds ?

We are so ear/y .......

As Saylor says

~ people will work 80,000 hours in their life to earn money, but they won't spend 100 hours on making sure they keep it

The average person will say

~ you need to diversify and putting all your money into btc is crazy.

To them I say: Majority of your wealth is in your house, I have pulled my equity out to buy Bitcoin so if houses go up, I win, if Bitcoin goes up, I win more. You can't just trade houses into perpetuity and think that you're going to get ahead. The gap will continue to grow between yourself and the person with the better house. It's simple math that our linearly thinking brains can't conceptualize and contextualize.

For those that don't understand MSTR, it's certainly worth doing a significant amount of research on top of what you already know about Bitcoin. MSTR has a premium on its underlying assets because there's a big distinction between holding Bitcoin and having a corporate balance sheet within a publicly listed entity. This allows them to bring different products to different pools of capital. That's the premium.

MSTR has evolved and upon Saylor's own admission, it's created avenues to capital that he didn't expect or foresee. The point here is, what will they do 2,5 and 10 years into the future. Again, that's the premium.

DYOR but create your own conviction