Forum Topics EVTL - Ready for takeoff
Magneto
Added a month ago

@Noddy74 Thought might be interested. Bit of a milestone, Dubai has just completed the world’s first flying taxi station (vertiport) near Dubai International Airport.

Not a concept anymore, this one’s built and ready.

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This is the first of a few planned stations, with more coming across:

  • Downtown Dubai
  • Palm Jumeirah
  • Dubai Marina


Flights are meant to be ~10 minutes vs ~45 by car, priced around Uber Black.

Still early, but interesting to see real infrastructure going in, not just talk anymore.

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Noddy74
Added a month ago

That's very cool @Magneto

Sorry for the delay but I've been on the Great Ocean Walk (recommended) the past week without internet access. Have they started test flights off the vertiport yet? I see Joby plan to be operating in Dubai this calendar year, which will put them as clear number 1 in eVTOL. I also saw a shite house announcement last week in relation to accelerating eVTOL across the US, with Joby and Archer being named primary partners.

By way of contrast Vertical Aerospace has underperformed, taking my sub-research position to a sub-sub-research position. They got a bit of a bounce last week after announcing certification acceptance of all forms of transitional flight (thrustborne to wingborne and vice versa). There's still lots to play out there I think.

Speaking of Dubai, are you still working there? What's it like living behind the trenches? Keep safe.

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Magneto
Added 4 weeks ago

Haven’t heard of any official test flights yet, but they must’ve done at least one because one of the vertiport photos had an eVTOL sitting there and it didn’t look photoshopped. The photos were from an official press release. Last time I drove past the skyport about two weeks ago it still had fencing around it and construction was ongoing. To be honest it just looks like a heliport at the moment, it use to a car park 18 months ago.

Dubai’s actually very safe despite everything going on. Strong leadership and the way the country’s set up means things move fast and stay well under control. Day to day life feels pretty normal here, we’re not going to run out of fuel lol.

Yep, still working here and no plans to change anytime soon.

If they start running proper eVTOL flights I’ll definitely let you know, that’ll be a big moment.

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Noddy74
Added 6 months ago

Do you remember Beyond 2000? It was that pretty naf 80s/90s sciencey/future tech program on Channel 10, that was all about flying cars and putting ants on treadmills to power your home. Stuff that was technically possible, but commercially questionable.

Well, it's taken a little bit longer than people thought but the future is here peeps!

There are now several listed companies that are going flat out to get to market with an electrically-powered Vertical Take Off and Landing (eVTOL) aircraft, that will initially target the CBD to airport commute. I have a very small highly speccy investment in one; the New York Stock Exchange-listed (but England-based), Vertical Aerospace. Cue cool photos...

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Established in 2016 and listed in 2021, Vertical is on a mission to be certified and flying commercially in 2028. We get a little more detail about the steps that need to be undertaken each time they report, but so far they've completed testing of thrustborne flight (going up and down vertically) and wingborne flight (flying horizontally). They have received their Permit to Fly to test transition flight (going from thrustborne to wingborne and back again), which should be complete by the end of 2025.

Their two major competitors are Joby Aviation and Archer Aviation, both US-listed and US-based. Joby is at a similar level of development to Vertical, maybe slightly ahead. Archer is a little further back. There are others such as Eve and Volocopter but they're further back still. There are a few things that separate Vertical.

First, it is seeking European certification (EASA and CAA for the UK). Joby and Archer are seeking US FAA certification. For the contrasts I turned to ol mate Chattie.

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Vertical's management make similar points i.e. that EASA is more front ended and prescriptive. But that's a good thing at their stage of development. The hard work is done and the steps they need to undertake are well documented.

Second, their airframe is bigger and can be configured for six passengers - compared to the competitions four. This gives more favourable operator economics. It also gives a higher luggage load per passenger. That's not insignificant. Users aren't likely to be turning right when they board their flight, so you'll need a load commensurate with business/first class baggage limits.

Third, the airframe was designed to be able to accommodate a hybrid (batteries and gas turbine) option. This could be the game changer, particularly in light of expected European defence spend increases. The hybrid option can extend the range from 160 km to 1000 km. So, it can take off and land like a helicopter, but go further and is almost silent when landing. Ironically, it could be that Donald and MAGA have provided a pathway for Vertical to get non-dilutive investment that will give them the capital to get to market.

Finally, Vertical is just a lot more efficient than Joby and Archer. Between 2021 and mid-2025 they spent US$400 million, compared to US$1,586 million from Archer and US$1,321 million for Joby. Now that is according to them, but I checked it on Tikr and it's roughly right.

Yet despite all of that Vertical's market cap is a fraction of their competitors. At US$385 million they're a microcap in the US context. Hell,@Strawman could probably get a Q&A if he wanted. Compare that to Joby and Archer at $12 billion and $5 billion respectively. This slide pretty much sums it up:

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But we've got helicopters! Isn't this like designing a crypto when we've got Bitcoin? Well, no. I asked Chattie to give me a no-holds-barred pros and cons of each.

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eVTOL isn't going to replace copters anytime soon, but clearly there are use cases for which it is better suited.

Could anything go wrong? Ah, one or two things. I could list all the risks, but I think we'd find out once and for all whether Strawman posts have a word limit (although I think @Bear77 might have proven they don't on occasion :) ). Funding is an immediate one. One of the things they revealed this month was they would need circa US$700 million to get to 2028 full certification. They have around US$117 million in the bank and plan to spend US$235 million in the next 12 months. In short, they need cash. However, a focus for 2026 is executing a partnership with a "Global Strategic" i.e. getting a key investment. Ideally they can do that without significant dilution e.g. a government defence investment. That might be more than a little naive though.

I'm looking for several catalysts in the next 12 months:

  • completion of transition testing
  • Global Strategic partnership
  • retrofit of hybrid (they're targeting first sale next year - I think they're talking about a conditional purchase order i.e. no cash)
  • Critical Design Review i.e. whatever they've got on paper is what they get certified (through 2027 and 2028) and commercialise
  • Growth in the order book (currently US$6 billion). They have this as a target, which if fine, but without seeing the fine print I'm less interested in this one. I'm not sure how hard it is to get a purchase order out of operators who can cancel at any time.


So there you go. A bit different hey? Fun fact, Beyond 2000 started as Towards 2000 on the ABC in 1981. They dropped it in 1984, in favor of starting a new science program named Quantum. Hosts of Beyond 2000 have included Simon Reeve, Amanda Keller and Tracey Curro. Grant Denyer and Matt Shirvington (he of the poorly supported running tights) presented on the spiritual successor called Beyond Tomorrow.

[Speccy hold]

23

Strawman
Added 6 months ago

I absolutely loved that show as a kid @Noddy74. Back in the day when the year 2000 seemed like a distant technologically advanced utopia.

I'm still waiting for my flying car and robot butler..

Anyway, you know I'm a sucker for tech, so will happily try and sort out an interview if people are keen for a US listed stock. Given the schedule and time of year, itll probably have to wait u til early next year though.

23

thetjs
Added 6 months ago

Excited for the idea and love the fact that in the internal graphic show that one of passengers does not appear to be wearing socks.

12

Magneto
Added 6 months ago

@Noddy74 Can you tell us more about these Ants on the treadmill powering a house!! We should start a highly speccy ASX company with that idea!

Archers are starting to do air taxis in Dubai next year. Outside my work they building air taxi port? (Not sure what they calling it, just know it be for air taxis . It’s like 3 story’s high so far? Not sure why such big building.

Few article about it, starting pop us especially after Dubai Airshow https://www.khaleejtimes.com/uae/transport/dubai-buildings-rooftop-access-air-taxi


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Bushmanpat
Added 6 months ago

But @Noddy74 and @Strawman do you remember that it was Towards 2000 before time marched on and it became Beyond 2000?

13

Noddy74
Added 6 months ago

Thanks for that @Magneto

The Dubai/Abu Dhabi thing came up in the quarterly. Fair to say the CEO was a little testy. Whether that's because they've missed a trick or because he actually believes what he said, I couldn't tell ya.

"So unquestioned, the Middle East is really important. But here's where it's not important and what I would call strategic tourism around certification searches. We do not believe there is any real validity in an eVTOL OEM seeking out some fanciful early-stage certification in the Middle East. It's not real, it's not tangible, and it's not portable globally. That's the reality, and that is based on my 4 decades of experience in this industry."

I dunno, but the fact you can see a vertiport being built outside your building is not nothing. I don't know that you do that if it's a gimmick.

15

Magneto
Added 6 months ago

Yeah exactly, just because something’s getting built doesn’t mean it’s actually going to happen. Dubai is full of “gonna” projects that never got past the glossy render stage… Virgin Hyperloop being a perfect example.

At the end of the day it all comes back to cost and practicality. For eVTOLs to move beyond hype, they’ve got to be cheaper than a helicopter, genuinely more efficient, and actually usable at scale. Until then, a vertiport going up is interesting, but not proof of real adoption.

Definitely interesting to see how it all pans out though. Do you remember there was a company called Martin Jetpack? They were even listed on the ASX for a while, big hype, lots of promise, but ultimately never became a real, scalable reality.

I do think there’s definitely a use-case for eVTOLs. But will everyone be travelling around in one? I personally can’t see it. Definitely something to follow though.

13

edgescape
Added 6 months ago

Should also mention there are lots of VTOL companies out there other than this one. Quick search reveals lots of companies with quite radical designs and concepts.

Seems like a very competitive space.

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