Forum Topics Superannuation
Rick
Added 3 years ago

Chalmers has Superfund Earnings in his Crosshairs

The current Federal government is starting to think retirees with superannuation accounts in pension stream paying zero tax on super earnings are getting it too good. The suggestion by former Treasury official Mike Callaghan is to introduce a modest tax on all super earnings. Apparently “retirees would hardly notice a tax on investment earnings because it would be automatically deducted!”…Huh? I think I would notice!

AFR story today “One fact stands out: Chalmers targets tax breaks for Super”, part copied below:

Tax breaks to exceed age pension

“The much bigger future cost to the budget is the tax breaks on super earnings, which are projected to jump from 1 per cent of GDP to almost 2 per cent of GDP by 2060, according to Treasury’s Intergenerational Report.

The tax breaks on super earnings alone will double from about $25 billion a year to around $50 billion, in today’s dollars in real terms.

Hence, overall super tax breaks will exceed the cost of the age pension by midway through this century, as Chalmers identifies. Almost 70 per cent of retirees will remain on the full or part pension.

Mike Callaghan, a former Treasury official who led the retirement income review for the previous Coalition government, says it is crucial that the system is made more equitable and sustainable.

Callaghan believes the tax exemptions and concessions on super earnings in the retirement phase should be wound back.

“The super tax concessions on earnings is the part that is going to be costing the budget a lot more,” Callaghan said on Monday.

Super accounts in the pension retirement phase with balances below $1.7 million pay zero tax on their investment earnings (and no tax on withdrawals to avoid double taxation).

In contrast, working-age superannuants and retirees with balances above the $1.7 million pay a maximum 15 per cent on their investment earnings, but in reality pay about 7 per cent after imputation credits and capital gain discounts are included.

Callaghan says a fairer system would be for all super earnings – both during working lives and in retirement – to pay a modest tax.

Many retirees would hardly notice a tax on investment earnings because it would be automatically deducted, as it is for working-age people during the accumulation phase, he says.

Super withdrawals could remain tax-free to avoid double taxation.

Ultimately, Chalmers will need to decide if he is only interested in fiddling with a cap on large balances, or a more major tax shake up of super.”

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Solvetheriddle
Added 3 years ago

@Rick "Many retirees would hardly notice a tax on investment earnings because it would be automatically deducted"---is this guy taking his cues from the RBA governor, sounds like ivory tower talk to me

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Chagsy
Added 3 years ago

Ummm

Havent the retirees been through the same thing?

werent they living next door to retirees, raising kids, paying taxes and paying a mortgage themselves a generation or two ago? (But not whining about how hard it was)

Id be the first to suggest that Australian society has now got a problem with wealth disparity compared to a few generations ago. Partly that is due to housing, but mostly due to the effects of assortive mating and Intergenerational wealth transfer. The wealth effect from housing (and most asset classes) may be in the process of correcting significantly anyway.

I’m not convinced changing the rules, after encouraging the population to save into Super is morally just, or indeed the solution to problem you describe.

I just realised I’ve given an off topic, political opinion oxygen. Perhaps we should not go too much further into this subject!

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Rick
Added 3 years ago

Hi Llati,

I’m in the self-funded retiree category paying no tax but I am sympathetic to some tweaks to the tax regime within superfunds.

The idea of slightly lower tax rate (ie. lower than the current 15%) on earnings while building your super (good for younger people) and a small tax on earnings once you are in pension phase ON BALANCES OVER A CAP of say $1.5 million doesn’t sound unreasonable, and probably fairer for young people trying to fund families and build for the future. We have adult children. We know how tough it is for young families at the moment, especially if you are trying to buy a home.

What I’m afraid of is that something like this could be the ‘thin edge of the wedge’ that erodes confidence in this wonderful super and franking credit system that is unique to Australia. This system is allowing hard working Australians to have control over funding their own retirement and encourages people to save for a better future.

Cheers,

Rick


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Chagsy
Added 3 years ago

That’s what super is for. So retirees don’t cost the state

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Invmum
Added 3 years ago

Gov also needs to keep in mind that with house prices where they are/going, younger people may not have the benefit of a home to fall back on. For some their super is their entire retirement. IMO this "cap" should account for the value of your home/primary asset

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BigStrawbs70
Added 3 years ago

Current retirees have not been through the same thing and have it too easy.... Well, it is easy to forget interest rates were 17% not that long ago as but one example.

Anyhow: There certainly is a case that extremely large balances in SMSF's should be looked, no question. Anything over $5M is a 'no brainer' to be taxed and the could/should be much lower than that. But to say this generation has it so hard compared to others is, with all respect, a bit simplistic.

9
twofootedgiant
Added 4 years ago

Just wanted to thank everyone in this thread, as reading through it all has resulted in me doing a bit of research around relative costs of my current fund (SunSuper, which I'd been pretty happy with up until now) and the various SMSF options. This then led to me taking the leap and establishing my own SMSF through esuperfund (took advantage of the promotional offer so saved myself some of the setup costs).

The thing that pushed me over the edge was checking my latest annual statement from SunSuper and finding that I got hit with over $4k worth of fees for FY21, compared to at worst $2k through the lower cost online SMSF administrators (including my estimate of brokerage over the course of a year of self-management).

I'm really looking forward to starting my SMSF journey now!

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Hands
Added 4 years ago

Bell Direct have a similar offering to eSuperfund (approx $1500pa). According to their marketing material, they have more 'service' than eSuperfund. Currently offering a free SMSF setup until 30 Nov.

https://www.belldirect.com.au/smarter/investor-solutions/smsf


Here is their comparison to eSuperfund https://www.belldirect.com.au/smarter/compare-smsf


Just throwing it in as an option. DYOR, I have no direct experience with Bell Potter.

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markeewan
Added 4 years ago

I have my own SMSF that I run myself and all the compliance aspects are managed for a fee of about $340 per month including end of year tax filing and ASIC stuff. In this account I can invest in any small cap stock or ETF as I choose in my self generated Investment Strategy document.

Whilst this might seem expensive, what you need to do is look at the cost as a % of the funds under management. As your account gets bigger then this self managed option becomes cheaper.

If you can make 15% per year in one option (because the limit your stock choices) or 25% in another option, then the management costs become less important.

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lankypom
Added 4 years ago

@markeewan you're being robbed. I use esuperfund to handle all my SMSF administration including auditor's report for $1000 a year.

Have been using them for 8 years and they have never put a foot wrong. End of year effort for me is 2-3 hours, but that's only because I have to manually record my US broker transactions. Aus transactions are fed in automatically from Commsec and ANZ bank.

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