Forum Topics CRYP CRYP Betashares Crypto Innovators ETF
Chagsy
Added a month ago

Here's fun:

d52108c58e17c383b27604caa9b482857a840c.png


Another major argument against thematics - always launching at the peak and then...well....see for yourself.

But

Look what the Don has done for BTC!

And ETH.

I thought it would be a good time to re-visit the whole world of crypto and DeFi

I have posted elsewhere, and have no chance of finding, that I lost a fair chunk on DeFi a few years ago. I accepted that the first 5k was a learning experience - it was an opaque system and challenging to work out how to actually use the bits of machinery required to even enter the space. After that I was almost certainly gambling. I don't like to look back on it and realise it as such, but that was pretty much what it was.By someone that never gambles.

But one thing I did work out was that there were a number of possibilities to profit from others like me. The usual way is it be a) well informed and ahead of the "retail investor"

or b) be "the house"

a) was never going to happen

b) was actually really easy

there are a number of "perpetual exchanges" which allow "traders" to take leveraged positions on the future movement of numerous crypto tokens. As in the casinos of the real world, the house always wins. There are certain aspects that are quite different - one usually is better off holding a basket of the tokens that are traded in a "pool". Your holdings are not your own - ie they are held on an exchange, which carries significant risk both of being hacked (the exchange) and also of contract failure (inter-web-blockchain-stuff).

So.

3 years later, having lost ~$70k USD in my initial disastrous foray (yup you heard that correctly), I had a review of my current situation to find I am now actually comfortably in the black.

Primarily this is due to the increased Capital value of my BTC and ETH holdings. @Strawman will correctly point out the benefits of merely having held Gold, I mean BTC! (had I done so - I too would have been able to afford a house in Sydney) But the other winning aspect has been the amazing yield off these perpetual exchanges and pools. I only hold pools/holdings in BTC/USDC, ETH/USDC and AVAX/USDC, plus the GMX token ( as a product of bonus payouts). These are relatively conservative holdings, at least, for the DeFi/crypto world.

Over the last 4 years, I have average ~20% APY, re-invested every 1-3 months.

Can't do the maths accurately but the compound interest on this has been quite good, even when the capital value of the tokens has largely been stable or sinking. And now finally It is rising, and goodness me things have taken off!


What to learn from this:

1) being the house when there is foolish retail is an easy win. This applies to any asset class, but the yields in DeFi are considerably higher than in RW assets

2) certain exchanges have proven to stable and trustworthy and rewarded those that have held their nerve. Of course this may change. But you are able to hold their tokens/pools in cold wallets.

3) it was was the best of times, it was the worst of times: this is volatility on steroids. I would a) never have even ventured there and b) never would have stuck it out, if it wasn't for my highly informed and invested brother, who re-assured me throughout he swings. He has been through 3 cycles now = 15 years.

4) It really is gambling money - I was an idiot to put so much in and am probably an idiot to still have so much still in! But there is a certain logic to it: I am relatively well off, I have done and re-done the spreadsheet; and can retire and be reasonably certain that no matter what the markets throw at me, my quality of life is unlikely to change too much. If I lost everything I have in crypto, my lifestyle still wouldn't change much. However if it fulfils its wildest expectations, then my lifestyle would change significantly: perhaps there are certain circumstances where swinging for the fences actually make sense.


I apologise if this comes across as a humble-brag. It is not my intention, merely to reflect my evolution in thinking about crypto in general, and as a record for myself to document my thought processes for continuing to hold a high risk "asset." Perhaps that should read - for continuing to speculate.


I will finish with a story of a lotto win. In 2004 my brother was flogging supplements on the internet in the first iteration of ecommerce. Website optimisation was relatively easy in those days and mostly involved writing copy with lots of keywords and links to high reward references. So, I scribbled a bunch of text about the merits and studies supporting certain nutraceutical and anti-aging supplements referenced to medical journals. Which worked really well. For a few years. And then didn't: Google's spiders evolved to more advanced methods of ranking websites and our nascent ecommerce site slowly drifted into irrelevance, folding in 2013 with the princely sum of $2000 in profit. Which I had completely forgotten about.

Bruv phoned me up a few days ago to say that he had bought BTC with the proceedings and that he wanted to pass on to me my 50% holding.

That was nice.


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Strawman
Added a month ago

Well done @Chagsy, you have to celebrate the wins (even if there's some luck involved).

I can't give advice, but I think this meme provokes a fundamentally crucial question (and not just for 'crypto'

abe2f18d3857dbf7d40d1825133f01adf37eb9.png


You know my view. There's only one neutral, digital commodity. And it largely has only one real use case. The rest are (yet to be proven) tech projects.

18
Hands
Added 3 years ago

Do the CRYPTO stars in this forum believe we are approaching the bottom of this freefall yet?

I'm thinking it must be close now... but what do I know?

15

Dangles
Added 3 years ago

Hi Hands

The Bitcoin price is at a polarizing position at the moment - many observers feel that the $41.7k USD level that we've bounced off twice now will hold, whilst many others see a continued fall, possibly even to $35k or $32k.

Personally I feel that the price has a bit further to fall and therefore probably recommend a bit more patience.

Cheers

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Hands
Added 3 years ago

@Dangles

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear bear/bull cases.

I'm just wondering how pervasive Bitcoin is as a currency. What can actually be bought with Bitcoin?

  • The best use case I can come up with is "medium of wealth transfer" (eg In El Salvador citizens are receiving money from richer USA relatives as they wire money back to their homeland without the transaction fees where Bitcoin is legal tender I believe)
  • I suppose we are just waiting for the digital wallet tech to get better before we can buy goods seamlessly like with a credit card? But until then it remains an investment?


I strongly believe in digital currency. I'm just trying to gage the tipping point where it will become the norm. A bit like BNPL.

11

AlphaAngle
Added 3 years ago

Transactions are seamless already with a lightning wallet. The issue is outside of El Salvador spending is a taxable event so currently it is a savings technology. New use cases come and go some are more promising than others. The main problem currently that Bitcoin solves is hopefully preserving wealth in a negative real rate environment (digital gold).

Although if you tune out the noise of price headlines...

In the last twelve months:

  • Adopted by small country as legal tender
  • Implemented into twitter for tipping
  • 40% of hash rate migrated from China after ban with no down time of network
  • Tesla invested 1.5 billion, Mastercard, BNY Mellon, Twitter, square and micro strategy also added Bitcoin to its company reserves
  • At least 12 mining companies raised between $50 million to $650 million each
  • Several banks in the US started accepting Bitcoin
  • Very friendly regulator talk / senate hearing out of the US

Similar events occurring are likely to accelerate as adoption continues at an exponential rate.

12

Dangles
Added 3 years ago

The use cases of Bitcoin and Crypto Digital Currencies are varied and change constantly.

Bitcoin as a medium of wealth transfer is an appealing use case, as it undoubtedly offers lower fees than Western Union or other similar payment processors that prey on unbanked consumers from lower socio-economic nations. Use as a real world currency is currently limited however due to volatility. Bitcoin volatility has been trending downwards over time, but is still much too high to be used as a stable currency for everyday goods purchases. Nonetheless, there are many providers that now allow you to pay for everyday goods with a bitcoin denominated debit card, but consumer demand has been quite low due to the volatility issue.

More recently, the use case of Bitcoin that has gained the most popularity is as a digital 'store of wealth' or as a 'digital gold'. As Bitcoin has a defined supply that will never change, many see it as an effective modern hedge against inflation in much the same way people rush to gold when volatility hits.

Waiting for a 'tipping point' per se with digital currencies doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If you believe in the technology and can foresee a world where cryptocurrencies become an entrenched part of the modern financial system over the next 10 years, then the current price is less significant. In that position, I believe the best tactic would be to invest using Dollar-Cost Averaging method.

10

Hands
Added 3 years ago

@AlphaAngle

Nice analogy "digital gold". Lots of investors, lots of markets to trade this commodity. Productive asset when it is used as 'fee saver' tech.

Wondering how the regulators are going to rein this in to get taxes for social investments. How would nations (eg El Salvador) support their public services if they use bitcoin as legal tender?

Note to myself and others who are not up with the lingo.... "Mining hashrate is a key security metric. The more hashing (computing) power in the network, the greater its security and its overall resistance to attack."

9

Hands
Added 3 years ago

@Dangles

Accept your point about not trying to time the market with digital currencies. But I'm thinking opportunity cost in investing in this space, like waiting for a small biotech company to develop it's use case and go into production. High volatility obviously also adds to the risk.

I'm already in CRYP etf. Just trying to determine if I want to hold more.

Interesting that Bitcoin supply is limited to 21 million. (Thanks for pointing that out Dangles.)

Whereas Ethereum adds new assets regularly.

Two very different beasts!

10
Hands
Added 3 years ago

Article is behind a paywall so all I got was this :

Switzerland will soon have a cryptocurrency exchange. SIX Digital Exchange (SDX) will let investors, via regulated institutions, trade, settle and store digital tokens through one venue, underpinned by the "highest Swiss standards of oversight and regulation".


Proof that crypto is a tradable commodity.

15
Remorhaz
Added 3 years ago

I thought this was one of the better informative non sensationalist articles on Crypto that I'd read in a while - on livewire

Cryptocurrency is moving into the mainstream but valuations look much too high


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