Forum Topics Portfolio Weighting, but what's a portfolio?
UncleWally
one year ago

Certainly some good advice and ideas from all.

Quite a few years ago my Father passed away unexpectedly from a heart attack however, being the organised person he was, he left a detailed document for me to follow in order to assist my Mother in settling his estate and reorganising my Mums affairs.

He had a WILL but this document was more about information and instructions on all the things I needed to know like credit cards, accounts names that needed changing, direct debts that were established, cancelling or changing club and organisation memberships like RSL and BUPA to name a few.

It was about 5 or 6 pages in size.

My Mother never involved herself in their finances so it fell to me and my sister. It would have been far more difficult with out his instruction.

Soon after his death my Sister and I arranged for my Mum to write a new WILL and EPoA. It proved to be a very wise move as my Mother developed Alzheimers Disease in her later years and we were able to help her because she had appointed us with powers of attorney both healthwise and financial.

In recent years I have prepared a similar but more detailed document for my wife and daughters to follow in the event I may meet a similar fate as my Father or Mother.

Our financial affairs are considerably more complicated than my parents were so my family knows there is a document and where it is stored that they can refer to if necessary.

I religiously update it as things change. eg: If I close an account or make a new investment.

I have included information on what we own, ie: bank accounts, managed funds, super accounts, share holdings and more. Links to businesses and organisations we deal with, account numbers and how they are paid ie: power, gas, rates etc by DD or CC.

I know it will help them during a difficult time as did my Father's document.

On a different but related subject, my wife and I have recently rewritten our WILLS to include Testimentary Trusts to ensure our assets are protected for the benefit of our Daughters and our Grand Children.

I won't go into any further detail except to say our Sons in Law are fine young men and we couldn't be happier with them but in the event that one or both our Daughters should die or remarry after we die I wanted to make sure that their inheritance is protected by a Trust for the benefit of our Grand and not a Step Mother or Step Father.

There are all sorts of things that could eventuate that might lead to your Grandchildren not benefiting from your hard work and unfortunately I have seen this happen so if this sends off any alarm bells I suggest you talk to your Solicitor about this.

My wife and I have fully discussed this with our Daughters and our Sons in Law and we are all very comfortable knowing there is a mechanism to protect our inheritance for the benefit of our family.

Finally I have to say that without WILLS, EPoAs, Testament Trusts and documentation, one's family can suffer unnecessary because of one's lethargy and that's not a legacy I wanted to leave my family with.



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Karmast
one year ago

Good thoughts , detail and thanks for sharing.

Scott Pape also suggests writing down all your online/social accounts and passwords etc on paper (not on your computer where they could be hacked). Store this in your safe or with your lawyer etc.

Because when you pass your loved ones will be stressed and upset so this will make things a little easier for them at such a time.

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loshell
one year ago

Things on paper get stale quickly... we solved this problem using a self-custodial encrypted password/data store that you can grant anyone read access to using their own key. You can store the digital key in a vault and have it passed to your estate's executors to unlock everything in the store. Same basic mechanism also works for self-custodying + HODLing crypto if you're that way inclined.

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Remorhaz
one year ago

@loshell would you be happy to share the name of the product you're using to store this data

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Trancer
one year ago

This is interesting. We use Lastpass Family which allows for the storage of passwords and the creation of notes and other records which are all encrypted using a self-custodial encrypted data store (as described above). It does not allow you to upload documents however.

Lastpass allows for records to be shared with family members who can access those records through their own profile.

Lastpass has an 'emergency access' feature which allows you to nominate a contact by supplying a name and an email address. How it works is you configure a waiting period for the user. The user can then request access to the entirety of your account and then the waiting period starts. You will then get an email, to prevent the person getting access to your details you need to click a link in that email. I have provided this to my significant other, and a very close personal friend 'just in case'.

It's a good system, but i'm interested in learning about the one you use @loshell ?

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loshell
one year ago

@Remorhaz Happy to, but the solution is based on a few different pieces of open source software so probably shouldn't be described as a "product" e.g. there's no formal company support backing it, and it's not "pretty" or particularly streamlined. I'm sure there are products that you could use to achieve the same result, but I'm a tech head and for things like this, I appreciate having a high degree of control/visibility and ability to customise. With these benefits though comes the responsibility to not screw things up as you only have yourself to blame, but that's the way I prefer it :)

If you're not scared off yet, read on...

So the core piece of software is called pass, which is a clever software (shell script) wrapper around a OpenPGP implementation (GnuPG is the defacto standard) and Git.

In a nut shell, pass uses Git to version control a set of files encrypted using one or more identities managed using GnuPG. The files can contain anything you want in them e.g. I store passwords, usernames, secret questions/answers, tax file numbers, customer numbers, a map to where the gold is buried, you name it. Think of Git as a filesystem directory that retains history i.e. every version of a stored file that has ever existed remains in the Git repository's history, and every time you make a change a new version is created. Git also works as a distributed filesystem directory, so you can sync your files across devices.

How does it all come together in practice?

  • You create as many PGP identities (where an identity is effectively an alias for an encryption key pair) as you need e.g. wifey and I each have our own, and you can create a generic "executor" identity too.
  • You store the executor identity somewhere safe e.g. split across multiple hardware tokens given to trusted people or placed in a safety deposit box.
  • You set up pass (or a pass-compatible implementation, of which there are quite a few) on the trusted personal devices you want access to your encrypted files e.g. we use pass on our laptops and Android Password Store on our Android smartphones
  • You tell pass which identities are associated with the sub-folders within your store e.g. wifey and I can have our own separate directories associated with our individual PGP identities, and a shared directory that either of our identities can access. You can give the "executor" identity access to everything.
  • You add/update entries day to day as you go about creating new accounts or updating existing ones to use new securely generated long random passwords


There are some additional set up + hygiene details to be aware of that are beyond the scope of this quick intro, but once up and running you have an incredibly powerful and flexible tool that you can tailor to your individual security/paranoia requirements.

When wifey or I or we both die, the unfortunate one left behind or the executor can "break glass in case of emergency" and use the executor identity to access everything without having to have access to our laptops or phones or anything else.

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loshell
one year ago

BTW, if there's sufficient interest from the community I'd be open to trying to put together a tutorial on self-custodying sensitive/important information using the method summarised above.

To differentiate general thumbs up from interest in participating in such a tutorial, please DM me to express interest and I'll collate numbers + report back how many folks are keen. Please also include a self-grade of how tech/web/software savvy you are (let's use "savvy", "intermediate" and "much to learn" for the self reporting) in your expression of interest so I can get a sense of how I'd need to tailor the material.

To set reasonable expectations, I'm quite time poor so even if there is substantial interest, it may take months or longer before I manage to turn my rough personal notes into a digestable tutorial-style presentation.

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Strawman
one year ago

I'd be curious @loshell

Though not investing specific, I'd be more than happy to host the presentation on Strawman if you like. I'm sure a lot of members would find it valuable, and generally pretty keen to tap into the collective brains trust of the community.

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loshell
one year ago

Greetings from Colorado all,

Trying to check in from time to time while in the midst of a few weeks of work travel. I'm circling back to this thread to say I've received 2 expressions of interest (1 of the 2 being @Strawman in this thread) which suggests there's not enough interest to justify developing some content around this sub-thread of the discussion. I'll instead just welcome any follow up questions here or via DM if any come to mind.

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Rocketrod
one year ago

Hi @Bushmanpat

Here's my two bob's worth. The answer is of course, it depends.

I agree with @DrPete, that the family home is excluded from your portfolio. Sure, it's included as part of your overall wealth, but not for portfolio/asset allocation purposes.

For asset allocation calculations, yes, I would include super, managed funds, shares, investable cash - but strip out "cash reserves" which you need for emergencies. The amount of cash reserves depends on your situation eg if you're on a salary (and employment seems secure), you might allocate 3- 6 months of your annual income to cash reserves, whereas if you're retired, you might want to allocate 1 - 3 years of your annual income to cash reserves. It depends on your desired "margin of safety" but whatever the amount of cash reserves are for you, they must be liquid funds eg cash management account and for me, they are excluded from my investable portfolio.

While you might not be managing all of your funds (eg you have an industry fund super account), I would include it in your overall asset allocation so you can assess whether your portfolio is aligned with your "risk profile"....and your partner's risk profile for that matter.

If you have an investment property, there are different views on whether it should or shouldn't be included. It's a personal choice but for what it's worth, when I was advising a client, my preference was to exclude investment property because the weight of the asset value (for most people) rendered the asset allocation to be somewhat useless ie if you had a $750K investment property and $250K in super, the asset allocation isn't going to tell you anything you don't know.

For me, as along as the share portfolio I manage, along with the share component of my super fund fit within the bounds of my target asset allocation, I'm happy. The only thing I'm measuring is how the portfolio performs over time, against the market.....I'm failing at the moment unfortunately.

While the question of what's a portfolio is a good one, I wouldn't over think it. Do the things that make a big difference first and then worry about the smaller issues. Here's a few things I would say are much more important than whether you have 4 months or 5 months of cash reserves.

Do you and your partner have a valid Will that still reflects your wishes? Does your family know where the Will is located?

Do you have an Enduring Power of Attorney? If you do, does your family know where it is? If you don't have an Enduring Power of Attorney, talk to your solicitor about the merits of having one.

Do you know with certainty, who will receive your super if you fall off the perch? If your response is, "I think....", then you don't know. Check with your super fund.

Do you have Enduring Guardianship? My Best Man had a massive stroke on Friday and nobody knows what his medical wishes are, and it's causing enormous stress for his family....I can assure you, they're not talking about what assets should be considered to be part of a portfolio.

And finally, apart from you, does your partner/children know exactly what you own and where to find the details? In my experience, when I met with couples, the man would tell me about their investment portfolio. I'd then turn to their partner and ask "if I asked you to go home now and locate the necessary information about these investments, could you"? The answer from their partner was almost always, no, they had no idea how to find the information.

Make sure you've addressed the important issues, before the nice to know issues.


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Bushmanpat
one year ago

Excellent advice @Rocketrod Now do you happen to have some advice for someone who knows about having to get a will and EPoA but requires some extra motivation in extracting a certain digit from a certain orifice to actually do something about it. Asking for a friend.

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Rocketrod
one year ago

Hi @Bushmanpat

Good on you for wanting to hold your friend accountable!

I used to joke that of the 10 things on our "To Do" list every day, getting financial advice was number 9 and updating your Will was number 10. Problem is, that we only get through the first 5 each day, so they just stay at the bottom of the list.

When it comes to Wills, the very real challenge for some people, is that their situation is complex eg second marriage, child with a drug addiction, etc. If your friend says this is their reason, I would ask them "yes, it's complex, but how does not updating your Will, solve this issue"?

What has worked for me with clients in the past, when talking about their goals is to be very specific. What is the goal? When do they want to achieve the goal? How much money (if this is relevant to the goal) will they need? Lastly, is to ask them about how they feel having achieved the goal.

For example,

Your friend says they want to get their Will updated because if they died, their estate wouldn't be distributed how they want it to be

I would suggest you ask "by when do you want to have your Will updated". If they said something like "next year", I'd say, "no, let's agree on a realistic date"....when I say date, I mean a specific date. Not "in July", but an actual date because it makes it more realistic in their eyes. You might have to push back a few times until you get to a timeframe that is reasonable and achievable. Honestly, I can't think of why it would be a date more than a month from the date of your conversation.

Once your friend has confirmed that he/she wants to update their Will and they've nominated the specific date, the next thing to do, is to get them to think about how will feel, having achieved this goal.

Say to your friend, "Ok, let's say it's the 15th July, (the date they said they'd get their Will updated), and you now have a Will that reflects how you want your Estate to be distributed....what are two or three words to describe what you're thinking and feeling, now that you've achieved this goal". They idea here is to get them to visualise what it will feel like, once the job is done.

It might feel a bit weird to ask them this question, but it's really important to get them to see what it will be like, once the job's done.

Tell your friend, that you are going to to check on their progress to ensure they get the job done by the date that THEY have nominated.

To sum up:

  1. Get them to commit to a date by when it will be completed.
  2. Tell them you're going to be like a "stone in the shoe", meaning, you're going to constantly remind them of their commitment. Just put a follow up date in your diary to check with them. If they haven't done it by the first follow up date, put a new date in your diary to follow up again. They'll get the picture.
  3. If you're really good friends with them and they really want to get the job done, you could say to them, in front of their partner, that their partner should withdraw "conjugal services" until they attend to their Will. That might motivate them!


Feel free to DM me if you have any questions

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Bushmanpat
one year ago

Great responses @Solvetheriddle @DrPete @Bear77 @Remorhaz . I've had a spreadsheet for years that I update regularly which covers my direct share investments and which I originally considered my portfolio. I also had a spreadsheet tracking managed funds but they were kinda separate in my thinking. i.e. money I managed and money others managed on my behalf. And super was super, a great tax effective investment but way too far in the future for me to actively consider it as part of my portfolio. But now that I'm a bit older (although at the end of mid-forties, I suspect I'm still a spring chicken in some eyes!) and I'm dealing with my parents estates, it got me properly thinking about allocation and what really is a portfolio. I agree, the family home is not considered for the reasons outlined by @DrPete , and I don't really consider the small consulting business I'm involved with as an asset because there's no guarantee I could sell it when I retire. If I do, that's a bonus. But in terms of portfolio in regards to weightings, I'm leaning towards including everything towards which I could actively allocate capital, which includes my super as well as my wifes.

Great to get others thoughts. And @Solvetheriddle I agree that a % is next to useless if the definition of what it is a percentage of remains unknown.

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Bear77
one year ago

I had to read the last sentence of that first paragraph twice @Bushmanpat - as I thought you had more than one wife and were including them as part of your asset base, but then I realised you were talking about your wife's super, and it made a lot more sense...

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Bushmanpat
one year ago

Was it confusing because I had more than one wife or that I was including them on the asset side of the ledger....

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Bear77
one year ago

Oh I'll definitely go with (A) more than one wife, because I'm not brave enough to go down that other path...

But as I said at a restaurant one time when offered either the Bailey's panna cotta or the Black Forest Cheesecake for dessert... "Perhaps a little of both..."


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Bushmanpat
one year ago

When you consider individual stock weightings in your portfolio, what do you consider to be your portfolio? Is it directly held shares? All your liquid assets like managed funds and shares? What about more illiquid assets like investment property, or the family home? Do you consider Super to be part of it as well, perhaps your partners super if you are the chief financial strategist for the family? Just interested in gauging peoples opinion on the difference between a portfolio and overall personal wealth and what assets get put in each bucket? Obviously this makes a huge difference when you talk about a 1% allocation to a promising yet highly volatile micro cap.

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Solvetheriddle
one year ago

@Bushmanpat excellent points and one of my bug bear issues as i have written beforehand. personally i include everything except the principal residence and personal effects. at one stage i didnt have a house so when i said 3% weight to CSL it was 3% of total net wealth. when people talk about their portfolios but the portfolio is only a portion of their total wealth say 5-10% it is completely different, imo, and cant be compared from an overall risk point of view. ie the risks you can take with a small % of your wealth is in theory much greater. the second issue,a and analogous for me, is that performance cant be compared due to probably completely different risk profiles in the portfolios. howard marks has also said a lot about this in various articles. that is why professional pm talk about risk adjusted returns. so they measure like for like. i could go on :)

to sum up i want to know how much real exposure someone has when they say %, but knowing their b/s is none of my business. you are right some more clarity here is warranted. a stand alone number (%) is next to meaningless imo. hope this is of some assistance

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DrPete
one year ago

@Bushmanpat great topic and questions! I've previously thought through this as well and reached a few decisions that I (currently at least) feel comfortable.

I think of my "portfolio" as everything, excluding the house we live in. I exclude our home because, although it is has value, I will always need a home, and I can't ever materialise the value without having to buy into an equivalent (buy another house, or rent which broadly moves in line with property values anyway).

I'm not sure how I'd factor into my portfolio a mortgage if I had one. We own our home outright so I haven't had to tackle this problem. But a mortgage brings some risk so it would probably tempt me (based on my personal risk profile) to take slightly lower risk with other investments. So in that case, even though I'm excluding my home from my portfolio, the level of outright ownership of my home is influencing my portfolio decisions.

Everything else includes all wealth in my name and my wife's name, including super, cash, ETFs, shares. I track this full portfolio with Sharesight in which I can see the relative weights and performances of the different investments, both at the individual ETF/company level as well as in categories such as Australian vs International, large vs small cap, ETF vs direct investment, etc. Sharesight automatically pulls holdings from our SelfWealth brokerage accounts, but I have to manually update Sharesight on our super holdings.

I have my own formula that I follow closely for the percentage of the portfolio in cash (incl permanent cash reserve as a backup for life's ups and downs, plus cash held based on estimated overvaluation of the market), percentage in ETFs, and percentage in direct share investment.

My SM "portfolio" is only a minority fraction of my overall portfolio. It currently excludes all our ETFs held personally and in super, and even some large ETF-like caps (eg Brickworks). Sorry @Strawman but I regard our ETFs as our "core" (I say this in jest because I think we're in agreement given how I think of core/satellite)! Until I prove to myself that I can meaningfully outperform an All Ords index over several years with my direct share investments (I use VAS as my performance benchmark), this "core" is the defensive and majority portion of my portfolio. My "satellite" investments are about 25% of my portfolio - these are still intended as medium-to-long term investments, but have high risk (and hopefully reward) profile.

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Bear77
one year ago

For me, when I refer to portfolios, I am talking about groups of share holdings, so ASX-listed shares and ETFs/ETPs only. I manage a couple of portfolios for other people, one for my kids, one for my mother-in-law, and another one, plus I have my SMSF which I manage on behalf of myself and my wife, so I tend to think about all of those portfolios as separate portfolios, and I don't think of them lumped together with my other non-shares assets, because there are different stakeholders for each portfolio - and for our family home as well. It would be different if I was just managing my own assets.

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Remorhaz
one year ago

I think I must be a mixture of some of the previous responders

Whilst I do kinda consider/informally track our overall total net wealth (which includes PPOR, Super x 2, and other miscellaneous "personal" stuff) I don't include those later things in what I call our "portfolio" (mostly because our super's are not in an SMSF so we aren't really "managing" them per se). So for me I really only call our directly managed investments outside of super (and excluding PPOR and other personal stuff) as part of the "portfolio" that I manage and track. And those "investments" include direct shares, managed funds, ETF's, etc

That said for full disclosure - similar to @DrPete - the vast majority of this outside super investment portfolio is in "core" index tracking, etc funds - so the direct shares sleeve of our overall portfolio is only a little under 10% of the total. And like Pete I track just this stuff as a portfolio in Sharesight (unlike Pete however I don't have Super and other non investment things in Sharesight). The only part of this that get's kinda "fuzzy" is cash - part of our overall "cash" pile is included inside the Sharesight "portfolio" which is tracked, and the rest is outside that (I guess you can think of the later as the emergency and normal spending pools?) - so unfortunately the cash aspect is fairly arbitrary

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Rick
one year ago

This is an interesting point you raise @Bushmanpat.

When I disclose ‘held IRL %’ on Strawman I am referring to the percentage of our total direct share holdings which makes up about 52% of our total assets.

Our asset split includes 13% family home, 25% investment property, 10% managed fund (wife), 20% joint direct share portfolio and 32% joint SMSF (100% direct shares). We generally hold between 1% and 5% in cash (currently 1%).

Cheers,

Rick

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mikebrisy
one year ago

@Bushmanpat you've asked a very relevant question.

When I refer to my "SM" and "RL" portfolios, these are the only direct holdings I have in ASX equities, and the only assets I actively manage (i.e. stock pick).

However, they are only a part of my overall asset portfolio including pension funds as follows: Home (26%), Global Fixed Income (22%), Global Equities (40%), ASX "RL" (10%, which includes "excess cash" of 2% awating deployment) and Cash (2%).

My SM portfolio is 28% of my "RL" ASX portfolio. The reason for the different ASX portfolios, is that when I started in SM, I only added the recent purchases at that time and only those that are higher risk companies that I believe are "yet to prove themselves", by which I mean proven to deliver shareholder value over the long term. It also allows me to run a comparison to track how I perform with my "risky assets" on SM (i.e., not so well over the last 2 years), versus the rest of my ASX portfolio, which are generally higher quality, proven firms.

For those firms I hold on SM, I haven't been entirely consistent in the weight I hold in RL for various reasons, but broadly speaking, my SM portfolio is a reasonable representation of all the "high risk" ASX equities I hold.

It is important to understand this, because when you see my "17%" SM holding in $PNV, in practice, it represents only 0.35% of my total assets. So, I'm not really taking such a risky bet, all things considered - i.e. I don't lost any sleep when it loses 40% of its value in 4 months for no good reason. I'd never have 17% of my total assets invested in one stock, let alone on the $PNV roller-coaster!

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