Forum Topics Something to Consider
Rudyboy
6 months ago

The problem with hydrogen is it costs $2 to make $1 of product. On ABC this week was a story about hydrogen cars in Australia...all 6 of them. They could only re-fill at Toyota's facility and the cost of fuel is at least as much as petrol.

I was once at NASA Langley talking to the man in charge of everything on the Shuttle except the engines. My business partner at the time suggested he would love to go to Mars. The good Dr from NASA said "why would you sit on a bomb for three years".....

The only way to make hydrogen work is nuclear power, either fission from Uranium or fusion from Lithium 6. I have serious doubts about BMWs claim, although can be a niche product.

Roll on Chinese New Year next week and the two week holiday. After that, hard to believe LOL, the price will recover for spodumene A and Li hydroxide.

Call Glencore and ask them for a price and delivery for 15,000 tonnes of Lithium Hydroxide. I know the answer, call back next year or the year after.

Btw, I am an Engineer.

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RodRocket
6 months ago

The point to consider is:-

How does this impact Lithium ?

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RodRocket
6 months ago

BMW says goodbye to electric cars. It has solved the problem of hydrogen engines and begins a new era

by La Grada  01/26/2024 06:43 in Automobiles 

BMW says goodbye to electric cars. It has solved the problem of hydrogen engines and begins a new era


The US and Europe are clearly losing the electric car battle. The automotive industry has already changed forever

The company that is challenging all automakers. They have created the solid-state battery of the future

Amidst the battle between electric and hydrogen-powered cars, Mazda has re-invented a new engine

According to a recent report from Information Trends, hydrogen engines are likely to become the future of automobile transportation. EVs have been the primary focus of zero-emissions car manufacturers, while hydrogen vehicles were relegated to the background.

The electric vehicle companies’ goal is to make them the dominant player by 2030, but it appears that hydrogen engines also want a cut of the market share. Hydrogen cars are similar to EVs but they have an electrochemical device known as a hydrogen fuel cell that emits only water vapor, which is a huge advantage in the competition for the most sustainable vehicle.

To date, around 2.5 million EVs have been sold in the United States. Meanwhile, as of mid-2022, roughly about 15,000 hydrogen cars were on U.S. roadways, and all of them are located in California.

BMW aims to deliver hydrogen cars as soon as 2025

The future of mobility will prioritize performance, rapid refueling times, and environment-friendly solutions. In line with these trends, hydrogen engines might be the next big thing to enter the automobile market. There are only a few selective manufacturers that are already working on this new technology to be ahead of the hydrogen vehicles, and BMW is one of them. As BMW CEO Oliver Zipse announced hydrogen engines will play an important role in many regions of the world in the long run. 

hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle (HFCV) uses a motor that is similar to that found in a battery-electric vehicle. However, instead of being powered by a heavy battery, it runs on a stack of fuel cells where hydrogen (H2) mixes with oxygen (O2) from the surrounding air to produce water vapor and therefore electricity. In other words, fuel-cell vehicles are technically a series of hybrids commonly known as fuel-cell hybrid electric vehicles (FCHEV).

Although hydrogen is the most common element in the universe it’s never found in its pure state, since is generally combined with other elements. As a consequence, creating pure hydrogen for vehicles requires a great deal of energy process to break the compound, which is derived from fossil fuels like natural gas.

HFCVs are similar to EVs but with specific differences that make hydrogen vehicles a unique green offer. Hydrogen engines can be refueled just as fast as their counterparts, and they don’t lose driving range with temperature variations. 

BMW iX5 Hydrogen

The BMW iX5 Hydrogen is one of three hydrogen-backed vehicles coming to BMW dealerships in 2024. The sustainable SUV concept aims to usher in a new era of electric mobility and do so with overachieving performance in mind. For companies, cities, and countries to meet their net-zero carbon emission timelines over the next few decades, a range of renewable energy sources is needed to fulfill the high demand for electrification. Hydrogen plays a key role in that future.

Some of the BMW iX4 hydrogen strengths are:

  • 400+ Horses ready to run on the road. Besides its tiny refueling count, the BMW iX5 will combine fifth-generation fuel cell technology with an electric motor, or BMW’s eDrive. 
  • The newest eco-innovation from BMW with great performance. Its top speed is 115 miles per hour, and it can sprint from 0 to 60 mph in just six seconds. The 400-volt battery situated directly above hydrogen engines increases the iX5’s power. 
  • A range of 313 miles similar to current EVs. With a range of about 313 miles, the hydrogen vehicle is comparable to some of the best EVs on the market, such as the Tesla Model Y with 330 miles. 

Despite the number of electric cars on the road has been increasing dramatically over the last three years. The International Energy Agency estimates that by 2022, only 14% of cars will be electric, and by the end of 2023 is expected to rise another 4%. 

This is a great opportunity for hydrogen cars to get a portion of the automobile market, which is still dominated by high-emissions vehicles. Hydrogen engine manufacturers should keep in mind that no single solution will meet every customer’s mobility need globally, therefore several alternative driving systems could coexist in the future.


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Ipsum
6 months ago

I’m sceptical about claims hydrogen will displace battery electric vehicles.

Hydrogen sounds great, because it’s familiar. You fill up a tank just like a regular combustion engine vehicle, but it’s an electric vehicle, so zero emissions from the vehicle. 

But so far hydrogen fuel cell vehicles have remained niche. A big part of this seems to be the lack of infrastructure. There’s very few places to refuel a hydrogen vehicle, with only 12 hydrogen refuelling stations planned across Australia (source: [State-of-the-art renewable hydrogen refuelling station launched](https://www.csiro.au/en/news/all/news/2023/november/csiro-and-swinburne-university-of-technology-launch-renewable-hydrogen-refuelling-station)). And producing green hydrogen is still expensive. Hydrogen also has to be transported and stored, much like petrol, but it has a lower energy density and a low boiling point. So it’s bit like oil infrastructure, but also quite different. 

Battery EVs have the benefit of being able to be recharged anywhere you have a power point. A regular home power point is slow, though, so DC fast chargers are offered. These still take longer than filling up a tank of petrol. How long depends on the size of the battery, the power available from the charger, plus the state of the battery. 

Offering faster refuel times and longer range is generally claimed as the big advantage of hydrogen fuel cell over battery EVs. But battery EVs are getting better. Newer EVs are starting to offer 800 volt architecture, which can offer quite fast charging times. Bigger batteries offer longer range, but this comes at a cost of more weight and more materials (so higher cost).

I could see a world where early EVs appear using batteries and slow AC home chargers, but quickly displaced by hydrogen fuel cell vehicles as the refuelling infrastructure is built out. This already happened once with petrol. But so far the hydrogen infrastructure isn’t there, charging infrastructure is rolling out, and battery EVs are continuing to improve. At this point I don’t think we will see hydrogen fuel cell displace battery EVs for the majority of private vehicle ownership.

I can see a number of areas where hydrogen will be preferred: remote areas, mining sites, ocean shipping, etc. But the only way I could see hydrogen fuel cells catcheing up at this point would require massive government subsidies from a government that wants a hydrogen industry, and a car industry. China’s subsidies have already bet on battery electric in this regard.

I can’t see hydrogen fuel cells displacing lithium. An alternative battery chemistry (solid state, sodium, etc) is certainly a possibility, but time frame is unclear.

DISC: I’m not an engineer. Hold PLS in SM and RL. Drive a battery EV. And lawn mower.

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