Forum Topics AD8 AD8 Bull Case

Pinned straw:

Added 6 months ago

AD8 down around 30% since high of 23.50. How low will it go?

ballermania
Added 6 months ago

With general weakness within the economy worldwide, I wouldn't be surprised if businesses cut back on their purchasing of audio equipment. There is a replacement cycle needed for audio equipment which may be held off a bit in a tougher environment and sales growth might fall. idk if that's why directors have been selling along with the CFO leaving, but Dicker data highlighted this recently reporting very poor numbers on the back of business buying less IT products. The IT products that DDR sells are a must for business, just like the audio equipment AD8 produces chips for, and there's a good chance businesses delay purchasing audio equipment within this environment causing some cyclical weakness in demand which will lead to some short-term slowing in growth which will hopefully (sorry holders) results in further contraction in the share price

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GazD
Added 6 months ago

Don’t apologise to holders @ballermania most holders here would be net buyers and as such benefit from a pullback if they’re still believers and the business remains in a good position long term. Especially if the pullback is short termism and nothing to do with the exectuion of the business itself

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thunderhead
Added 6 months ago

If only we knew with reasonable certainty the answer to that Q...we could make a few shekels, and rinse and repeat it ad nauseum :)

Here's where TA can offer some guideposts -

a.) The price is currently resting on an upward sloping 200DMA. If this level is defended (maybe with an overshoot to the downside first), this is close to the bottom.

b.) There's some support around the $15 mark.

c.) Larger support exists around the $10.50 mark, from where the shares went on a big run after FY results were reported last year. There's also a gap on the chart there from the earnings release, which could be filled in the worst case. Given the big run from those levels, there's not a lot of support between there and $15 odd, though these are just lines in the sand and subject to fluctuate.

Hope that helps.

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jcmleng
Added 6 months ago

@thunderhead , fully agreed! Chart is attached below for reference. The price has retraced 38% (which theory says it should retrace by at least this much) which coincides with the 200DMA. Expecting good support around these levels up to ~15.21.

Thereafter it is between 14.27 and 15.21 which also coincides with the 50% retracement, which strengthens the floor.

Failing which, the next level is ~10-50-11.01.

Not looking to top up as am already over allocated.

Discl: Held IRL

75037fb1f9cbc3795fb886d92a7f8f25ffdf55.png

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thunderhead
Added 6 months ago

Ah yes. I thought of putting some Fib levels on it, but decided to keep it simple. When the Fibs coincide with a traditionally well followed level of support (what's called a "confluence" of support in TA parlance), you best pay even closer attention!

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thunderhead
Added 6 months ago

Well, today's action leans bearish for the defense of the 200DMA, so it looks like $15-odd is on the cards. The resgination of the CFO seems to have been a catalyst.

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edgescape
Added 6 months ago

Verbrec had the CFO leaving and the share price tanked with all the retail in HC calling out doom for the company. Yet on the roadshow the "interim" CFO seemed competent in answering questions with Mark Read. Is that new and experienced leadership rubbing onto existing management?

Point is there is sometimes a silver lining.

Back to AD8, maybe finally an opportunity to make room for this in my portfolio? The network effects are appealing here but still question on management conviction.

Update: I should have added timing and governance of share sales. Don't have problem with share sales as long as it is not too much

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mikebrisy
Added 6 months ago

Very happy for the SP to tank from here, although I doubt that it will in the absence of further news. $AD8 has a strong reputation, and so they should be able to attract a quality replacement for Rob. My reasons are selfish - I've started to rebuild my $AD8 position, and would be happy to add some more if SP falls below $15.

CFO Departure

People decide for all manner of reasons in mid-career to make a change, and it doesn't necessarily reflect anything about the company. (I speak from personal experience.)

Looking at Rob's skin in the game in the 2023 Annual Report his shareholding was 145,655 shares, plus performance rights in addition. Over the last two years he has sold down typically 15% to 30% of his holdings each year, so has not accumulated as large a position as he might have. As a key insider with 7 years service at a senior level, this is quite a small holding. Still it is $2.5 million worth - its a reasonable nest-egg, together with his accummulated earnings and proceeds to see him and his family right for whatever lies ahead. Although "personal reasons" isn't as helpful as it might be and leaves room for inevitable speculation, people are entitled to privacy. (Many years ago, as a key insider, when I sold down my holdings I was asked to give a reason by the Remco. My response "personal reasons" i.e., none of your business, its my life and they are my assets.)

However, the fact that he will see through the next reporting round convinces me that there is nothing amiss here. A key issue in this type of firm is revenue recognition (witness what happened at $AMS) or inventory control/reporting. That's the kind of issue that could get a CFO uncomfortable with hanging around - but then they wouldn't stay for the reporting round, including the audit of the annual accounts. So, I can't see any flags here that might be associated with a CFO exit.

If Rob had built up a large position and was also offloading it at the recent high prices, that might add some support to some of the speculation. If he was acting on some hunch that the forward prospects of the company might have peaked, I'm guessing we'll see some leading indicators of that in the FY results. So, while it alerts me to pour carefully over the FY result and scruitinise the commentary and outlook statements carefully, I do that anyway.

I take more comfort knowing that Aidan Williams has almost 1.9 million shares after his recent selldown, which was only 2.5% of his holding. That kind of sell-down, even if it occurs on a regular basis, doesn't both me, particularly given that it was at a very good price at just under $22. At the end of 2020, he had 1.9 million shares, and so he is selling down slightly less than he is accumulating from performance rights/LTIs - but of course the value has grown very materially over the last 3-4 years. Its hard work being a CEO, and taking out $1 million to buy a better house, paydown the mortgage, or the kids mortgages, or even to diversify your holdings a bit, is hardly an issue from my perspective. I don't share the obsession of some over insider sell-downs. Why be rich, if you can't enjoy it?

With both his shareholding and performance rights, Aidan still has a lot of skin in the game. It's a personal legacy he has built up over the large part of his career - 21 years to be precise. I'd be much more concerned if he - as the remaining co-Founder - were to leave. $AD8 is a global leader in digital audio networking, and is having a crack at extending that leadership to AV. You'd have thought - money aside - the motivation of being at the helm of a global leadership success story like that is powerful. (Think Sam Huppert, Richard White, and Aram Mirkazemi - its a small and select club on the ASX in the technology space).

Every firm needs a good CFO. Every CEO needs a competent CFO working alongside them. Aidan and the Board will know this, and I am sure they will go through a robust search and selection process to get a good candidate. In time we'll find out. Provided they make a reasonable appointment, then I am convinced the future prospects of $AD8 doesn't rest on the brilliance of the CFO! That depends more on Aidan, the CTO, the Ops Lead, and the Sales and Markeing leads.

My View on $AD8

Just under 2 years ago I sold out of $AD8 at just south of $10. While at the time I had a wild range of valuations - so wide as to be almost useless - I had two concerns about 1) expense growth and 2) $AD8 entering the more competitive AV space, which I judged would be a different kettle of fish to audio. That judgement wasn't particularly well-informed beyond observing the number of companies globally working on digital AV, networking, and the potential in software. I couldn't answer the question "why should $AD8 win in AV?"

As is often the case, I regretted the decision soon after taking it, and in Q3 last year bought back 2/3rd of the position at around $9.00, only to sell it all again at $17.29 in Jan-24 prior to the latest results. (Again, on risk reward, I felt the shares were more than fully valued, and I wasn't a high conviction on the stock).

What I didn't count on was just how good the 1H result would be - so of course, I felt like a Wally, once again selling a winner. (Now for the record, I didn't add back in SM, which I should have because $AD8 fits in my "unproven" category of stocks. The reason was that the SP got away on me very quickly again in August last year, and I was waiting to add on SM, but never again got the opportunity!)

As I reflect on the psychology of my own decision-making, I have a contrarian streak. And so I started to doubt the upper scenarios of my valuation once all the "talking heads" started spouting on about how great $AD8 is without revealing much substance in their arguments. I can't help it, but that started to ring "sell" alarm bells in my head.

However, the fact is that my two grounds for selling in 2022 have not been bourne out. Expense control has been good, revenue growth and margins have been strong (alebit aided by the backlog, which will likely now be absent into FY25). More importantly, $AD8 seems to be making good progress in AV, underscoring that the video acquisition was a good one. While I still question whether they can achieve the global dominance in AV that they appear to have done in audio, it still creates the blue sky in the valuation again. Today I can see valuations anywhere from $14 to $24. Still a very wide range, but we are solidly back at the lower end, so the risk-reward is favourable, albeit this relies on strong execution and growth for several years. Any hiccups in performance will likely be punished, and its not inconceivable we could see the SP sub-$10 again.

So patience continues to be a virtue, particularly with highly rated, volatile growth stocks, and I am now back in, both in RL and SM, with enough of a position to have scratched this itch, but with some headroom to add more if we see further SP weakness. I'm more likely to wait and see what the FY looks like.

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Saiton
Added 6 months ago

@mikebrisy Wow Mike, thank you very much for the time it took to post your thoughts for us. I for one greatly appreciated it. Whilst I will follow the technicals on the charts (or more so the sentiment of those that control the stock movements), I am glad to have someone of your experience following the fundamentals and hopefully between the 2 methods we can nails some great trades with the help of the wider community here on SM.

I couldnt agree more with your thoughts on the CFO stepping down (cant see why it would be such a big deal for the reasons you mentioned). However, there again is the problem we have with investing, being that we are at the mercy of the wider markets sentiments.

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Ipsum
Added 6 months ago

I'm surprised it has continued to fall off the back of what appears to be a minor announcement.

Wonder if we are starting to see some tax-loss selling enter the mix?

In any case I'm happy to hold for now. Even though it is my second largest individual holding in RL I'll be looking to buy more if the price drops much more.



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thunderhead
Added 6 months ago

$15 reached today. Will this level be defended? *Grabs popcorn and watches (sad life I know!)*

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thunderhead
Added 6 months ago

Defended as of close today. Unusual action with the late buying on reasonable volume - could be EoM rebalancing.

10

mikebrisy
Added 6 months ago

@thunderhead you are correct. MCSI Indices rebalance on last trading day of May.

For example, $IEL was dropped from at least one of their indices, and as a result 25.3m shares traded on Friday, which is a huge volume for the stock, and which explains its drop.

I only know because Adam Dawes mentioned it on The Call yesterday, and I did some digging and believe that to be true.

Probably explains large moves on several other stocks too.

Not sure that it explains the $AD8 move up, but there were a lot of trades and high volumes that cleared after the market closed.

TBH I don’t understand the mechanics at play here. Perhaps a more knowledge StrawPerson can explain.

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Bear77
Added 6 months ago

I am NOT that more knowlegable StrawPerson, but I can provide some clues: Index Rebalance Info Sheet_MAY 2024.pdf

Also:

May 14, 2024 at 09:06 PM UTC

THIS IS AN ANNOUNCEMENT FOR THE MSCI GLOBAL STANDARD INDEXES

MSCI GLOBAL STANDARD INDEXES MAY 2024 INDEX REVIEW

London - May 14, 2024 - MSCI Inc. (NYSE: MSCI), a leading provider of critical decision support tools and services for the global investment community, announced the results of the May 2024 Index Review for the MSCI Equity Indexes. All changes will be implemented as of the close of May 31, 2024.

Highlights include: 

MSCI Global Standard Indexes: Forty-two securities will be added to and 121 securities will be deleted from the MSCI ACWI Index. The three largest additions to the MSCI World Index measured by full company market capitalization will be Microstrategy (USA), Pure Storage (USA) and Emcor Group (USA). The three largest additions to the MSCI Emerging Markets Index measured by full company market capitalization will be Chandra Asri Pacific (Indonesia), JSW Energy (India) and Canara Bank (India).

MSCI Global Small Cap Indexes: There will be 233 additions to and 293 deletions from the MSCI ACWI Small Cap Index.

MSCI Global Investable Market Indexes: There will be 187 additions to and 326 deletions from the MSCI ACWI Investable Market Index (IMI).

MSCI Global All Cap Indexes: There will be 113 additions to and 83 deletions from the MSCI World All Cap Index.

MSCI Frontier Markets Indexes: There will be nine additions to and five deletions from the MSCI Frontier Markets Index. The three largest additions to the MSCI Frontier Markets Index measured by full company market capitalization will be Digi Communications (Romania), Koncar Distributivni I (Croatia) and Air Astana GDR (Kazakhstan). There will be 27 additions to and six deletions from the MSCI Frontier Markets Small Cap Index.

Based on the feedback from market participants, liquidity in the Egyptian and Kenyan foreign exchange markets and the ability of foreign investors to repatriate capital from the Egyptian and Kenyan equity markets have improved. MSCI will resume the implementation of index review changes for Kenyan and Egyptian securities in the MSCI Equity Indexes starting this index review.

In light of currently observed market accessibility issues, MSCI will continue to not implement changes as part of this Index Review for any securities classified in Bangladesh for the MSCI Bangladesh Indexes or impacted composite indexes.

These changes, along with other changes across MSCI Equity Indexes including the MSCI Global Islamic Indexes, MSCI US equity Indexes, MSCI US REIT Index, MSCI China A Onshore Indexes and China All Shares Indexes are available on MSCI's "Index Review" web page: msci.com/index-review.

For more information, please visit at www.msci.com.

--- ends ---


Also:

MSCI Global Investable Market Indexes May 2024 Index Review

MSCI_May24_STPublicList.pdf (Large Caps)

[MSCI AUSTRALIA INDEX (Global Standard, i.e. Large Caps)]:

[PME replaced IDP Education, IDP demoted into MSCI Small Caps Index - see below]

MSCI_May24_SCPublicList.pdf (Small Caps)

[MSCI AUSTRALIA INDEX (MSCI Small Caps)]:

Additions

  • IDP EDUCATION (demoted down from Global Standard index - see above)
  • MMA OFFSHORE (promoted up from micro cap index - see below)
  • SG FLEET GROUP (promoted up from micro cap index - see below)
  • WA1 RESOURCES (promoted up from micro cap index - see below)
  • ZIP CO (promoted up from micro cap index - see below)

Deletions

  • AUSTRALIAN CLINICAL LABS (demoted down to micro cap index - see below)
  • PRO MEDICUS (PME was moved up into the Global Standard Index - see above)
  • TYRO PAYMENTS (demoted down to micro cap index - see below)


MSCI_May24_MicroPublicList.pdf (Micro Caps)

[MSCI AUSTRALIA INDEX (MSCI Micro Caps)]:

Additions

  • AUSTRALIAN CLINICAL LABS (demoted down from small cap to micro cap index)
  • BRAZILIAN RARE EARTHS
  • BURGUNDY DIAMOND MINES
  • CHRYSOS CORPORATION
  • DIMERIX
  • GOLD HYDROGEN
  • TYRO PAYMENTS (demoted down from small cap to micro cap index)

Deletions

  • ALTHEA GROUP HOLDINGS
  • ASTON MINERALS
  • AZURE MINERALS
  • GALILEE ENERGY
  • K & S CORP
  • KING RIVER RESOURCES
  • LIVEHIRE
  •  MMA OFFSHORE (promoted from micro index up to small cap index - see above)
  •  NETLINKZ
  •  QUICKSTEP HOLDINGS
  •  SG FLEET GROUP (promoted up to small cap index - see above)
  •  STAVELY MINERALS
  •  WA1 RESOURCES (promoted up to small cap index - see above)
  •  WIDGIE NICKEL
  •  WOTSO PROPERTY
  •  ZIP CO (promoted up to small cap index - see above)


MSCI Global Value and Growth Indexes May 2024 Semi-Annual Index Review

Data available to MSCI subscribers only.

AD8 may have been added to the MSCI "Growth" Index. Not disclosed.

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Valueinvestor0909
Added 6 months ago

Still 80% up in last 12 months

0c91fa544bbbfab259f0db190c0c525f7024f7.jpeg

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BoredSaint
Added 6 months ago

I've added around my Strawman Valuation today IRL. Haven't added on Strawman as its already quite a large portion of that portfolio.

Too hard to pick the bottom so happy to average in if the weakness continues.

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