Forum Topics Investing Edge
Slomo
Added 6 months ago

Investing Edge

It’s often said that if you don’t have an edge you shouldn’t invest – this is especially true if you believe the market to be more efficient than not.

Personally I think that most of the market is mostly efficient most of the time. A corollary of this is that parts of the market are less efficient some of the time – especially small caps during dislocations and in valuing longer duration quality (due to impatience / incentives).

Buffett’s Circle Of Competence concept is probably the starting point here, when he says "Know your circle of competence, and stick within it. The size of that circle is not very important; knowing its boundaries, however, is vital." His simpler maxim on this is “Risk comes from not knowing what you're doing.”

I see the importance of having an edge over the market as being an extension of this.

Without an edge, the market will usually exploit its relative edge and the longer you play, the more you will lose. This is perhaps best summed up by the adage “If you’re playing poker and after the first few hands you can’t work out who the patsy is, it’s probably you”.

There’s usually 3 or 4 sources of potential edge, that gets discussed. I tend to favour Michael Mauboussin’s BAIT framework. See p255 here for his full paper https://mjbaldbard.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/michael-mauboussin-e28093-research-articles-and-interviews-2017-2020-1.pdf

B = Behavioural is probably the most achievable source of genuine edge for individual investors (in theory at least). Think Buffett’s quote “Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful”. Easy to say, hard to do. You will probably need a solid process to keep you on track, otherwise your emotions can steer you in the direction of the herd. For some inspiration on this, I recommend Daniel Crosby's book The Behavioral Investor - https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/36960014-the-behavioral-investor.

A = Analytical is hard to compete with the street when it’s made up of smart, competitive, well resourced analysts who love doing this all day every day. AI might make this even harder to compete with better resourced operators (with inhouse AI capabilities) for a while, but the playing field will hopefully level out as AI becomes more mainstream. I often think of the quote: “AI Won't Take Your Job, but Someone Who Can Use It Might”.

I = Informational was a big source of edge in the bad old days but now insider trading laws and the internet have largely made the market more efficient so (in theory at least) everyone has access to the same information at the same time. Finding less publicly available qualitative information may still be a potential source of edge but you never know what the market also knows at this level.

T = Technical is largely about being able to go where others can’t. High Frequency Trading might be a source of this. Buying illiquid small caps that larger funds can’t is another. Having a longer holding period when not constrained by quarterly / annual fund reporting requirements and performance fee incentives is a potential source too.

 

How to think about these.

It’s notoriously hard to gain, much less sustain an edge in investing but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try.

One way to think about edge is table stakes. Having a decent baseline capability in each of these is probably required to play the game for any period of time, let alone play it well.

I tend to think that Analytical and Informational are the 2 biggest sources where you can lose and Behavioural and Technical are the 2 biggest sources of potential edge.

So I try to have a clear process to ensure I have good information sources and analysis of these, remembering that I am competing with a lot better resourced investors that I. This is especially true at the financial statement level where you are competing with algorithms – I will never keep up with them but I try not to fall too far behind. My process is always improving but the focus is on completeness, speed and ease of use. Example, I use a data provider to extract and standardise granular Financial data which I then distil into the most useful information based on my strategy. I can run this from start to finish in just over an hour to give me full and half year financials, ratios, growth, margin and price multiple histories, reverse DCF, mgmt. skin, multiple of holding over salary, insider buying and selling, etc, etc.

I don’t consider this a source of edge but really just trying to keep up with the market. Then I am free to try to build on this foundation.

Combinations of Edge

To assess your overall edge, you could give yourself a %age score vs the market and multiply these together. That way a particularly low score in one will hit your overall estimate hard. If for example you weren’t using the internet, your Informational Edge would probably be no higher than 20% and this would be a big problem for you and your score no matter how high your Behavioural or Technical Edges were.

This also allows you to manage the downside by minimising your loss on Analytical and Technical to say 80% or the market’s capability while trying to maximise your Behavioural (patient, disciplined) and Technical (Small / Mid caps, longer holding period) so they are > 100% of the markets estimated capability.

If for example you estimate your analytical and informational edges to be 80% each and both your Behavioural and Technical edges to be 125% each, multiplying these together would get you to 100%, so you’re all square. If you think these estimates are reliable and you believe you can (and will) improve these scores, you may have an edge to exploit, if not, index funds might be a better path.

That’s how I think about it anyway, keen to hear any different perspectives / stinging rebuttals.

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Strawman
Added 6 months ago

Love this @Slomo

I agree that 'behavioural' is an available edge if you can be disciplined enough, and the small cap arena is somewhere you can minimise your competition against the well-resourced players.

I'd probably add timeframe as a source of edge too. The institutional imperative, and the various incentives the fundies and brokers are subject too mean they usually operate over shorter timeframes -- and can often miss out on the full benefits of a multi-year compounder. Especially if they get too clever with position sizing and valuation.

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lankypom
Added 6 months ago

I think my edge is a combination of laziness and patience. My main portfolio was established in my SMSF in 2013. It contains 19 companies, with an average holding period of 6 years. My annual return (XIRR) is 20% (with special thanks to NVIDIA).

My career was in IT so I have tended to focus my investments in my circle of competence. Pretty much all the companies I own are market leaders in growing markets, and most of them either sell software or provide a service via a software application.

All but 4 of my companies have delivered investment gains, with no surprise that the laggards are the ones I have held for the least amount of time. My experience has been that even when I invest in a company with a premium valuation, it will eventually grow into and then surpass that valuation, provided it continues to grow and take market share. So for example one of my 4 laggards is Polynovo, held 

for 4 years and now teetering on the brink of positive territory for me. In 5 years time I have a high conviction that this will be a multi-bagger. 

In short, patience and a long term mindset is what does it for me.


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Duffshot38
Added 6 months ago

It is such a simple edge but I agree with you @lankypom. I dont call it laziness (but it could well be) but I look at it more as just operating on a completely different pace to the rest of the market and just letting things happen around you looking out further than the next few months.

More and more I try to just buy companies I think are performing well with good management and letting them get on with it. Key focus for me is to not get distracted if a valuation is getting high and selling as more often then not these have been my worst decisions and I have sold out of good positions for small gains (and paid tax) when I should have just watched from the sidelines and played another round of golf. My biggest regrets are the "why the hell did I sell that then and not just hold on. Something starts to get a lot of attention, share price goes up, you see a good profit, you sell, you pay tax, company keeps going and going going....... eg XRO PME

I do get sucked in occassionally to a short term play but rarely do these really make much of an impact compared to the long term sit and watch.

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Bushmanpat
Added 6 months ago

Great post @Slomo and definitely something worth discussing. I think timeframe is my biggest advantage. The more I listen to fund managers and the like (think livewire etc), the more obvious it is that they are only thinking to the next quarter, or maybe a year at a stretch. Whereas I follow the Charlie Munger "sit on your hands" style and wait for good companies to mature and hopefully compound. Right or wrong, I'll often buy into a company and tell myself it's got 5 years to prove itself, no matter what goes on, unless of course they change from being a health tech company to a junior miner or something! This leads in to the next point.

I think another advantage, although I'm not sure if advantage is the right word, is that investing is a not my main form of income. At 48, I'm more investing with an eye for when I'm in a different tax bracket after retirement, so I can a) give things time to play out and b) don't have to sell things to buy other things. The tax discussion is probably better left for another forum but I will say, quickly, that I think it is an advantage to think holistically about returns which includes tax liabilities. We always talk about a company's free cash flow, which is effectively the money left over after the taxman cometh, so it should be the same with our investment thinking.

And behavioural is definitely a huge advantage. I'm definitely not a shoot first, ask questions later kind of guy when it comes to buying and selling. Being able to ignore the macro noise, which in 95% of cases is purely short term anyway, can be an advantage.

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Solvetheriddle
Added 6 months ago

@Slomo i wrote a large piece for this that turned into a rant but has disappeared. SM edit?? lol

to summarise, retail punters advantage is, imo

  1. patience --a US podcast i frequently listen to quotes that in the 1970s the average holding period was 5 years and now it is 7 months, the focus of Mo investors, HFs etc, beat/miss game playing, plays into the hands of long-term investors. Brokers concentrate their efforts mostly on lucrative clients eg HF/algos, and also focus on one year numbers. and the next beat/miss. dont play that game
  2. knowledge--seriously following a company for a couple of years should put you in a better position than 95% of players. there will always be those with privileged data, so be it--doesn't destroy the base case, imo. i am suspect of strategies that depend on being an expert after 15 minutes of work, or experts on everything, that is the risk to me. my other contentious point is that opportunity is available across the complete market cap spectrum, look at the movement in the largest stocks in the world, depends on where you focus your work and your ability to wait for an opportunity.

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Bushmanpat
Added 6 months ago

I read a quote from Wes Maas in todays AFR which I think fits neatly with the timeframe discussion here.

Analysing company share prices, Maas says, is a pointless exercise, calling it a "dark art", with prices driven by "emotion and everything else that controls the market", rather than company fundamentals.

"The sharemarket is very short term focussed, whereas every investment we make in the business we talk about a five to ten year time horizon"

We need to have the patience for the short term noise to disappear and the long term fundamentals to arise.

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