Forum Topics Share Registries

Thanks Bear that's very helpful.

It sounds to me like:

  1. Registries are a total dogs breakfast of wasted administration time.
  2. I have to care.


I think I have about 5 different companies not showing in my registries.

Blergh.

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Okay, a dumb question, but I don't understand exactly what these do or what is the point of them, or whether I even need to care about them.

I have my shares held in broker accounts, and the shares are assigned to various registries.

I've tried to create accounts to most of these, but shares that should be showing up in them aren't. I have had 3 broker accounts, which seems to have caused some issues in the past.


Does anyone understand this any better than me?

Can I safely ignore these and just use the broker account?

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Bear77
a month ago

That problem usually stems from the brokers having different HIN (Holder Identification Numbers) for you, so when creating accounts with the share registries, you often have to create a different account for each HIN, although some share registries allow you to have more than one HIN attached to your account, but as a general rule, different HINs mean different logins (accounts) with each share registry. Some registries allow you to set "standard" or "default" settings, such as communications options, your TFN, and your bank account details, and then they will apply them to every new company that is added to that brokerage account - they are added automatically as you buy them and removed when you sell them, so that side of things can be fairly hands-off once you set it up, but not all registries have that option; some make you type the info in manually for EVERY position, although most let you apply those changes to multiple holdings at the same time. Main point is - that will only apply to that HIN.

Practical example - if you trade with Selfwealth and with Commsec, each of those brokers will use a different HIN for you, so you'll have two different HINs. If you then open accounts with Computershare, Link, Automic, etc., they will ask you for your HIN - just the one, so that account will only show either your shares bought through Selfwealth OR your shares bought through Commsec, depending on which HIN you use when opening the account. It may then be necessary to open a second account (with different login details) with the same share registries (Computershare, Link, Automic, etc.) to access the other shares (bought through the other broker) - using their HIN. Try not to use your email address as your login name unless they don't give you a choice, because if you do, you may then have to give a different email to open the second account with that registry. If you have a third HIN, then you may need to open three accounts with each registry.

One way around that of course is to move shares over into the account of the broker that you use now, and have them all under one HIN. Moving shares from one HIN to another is simple as long as your name and address are identical with both of them - if there are any differences, it can get messy - i.e. they may refuse to process the transfer and then you have to request to have your name or address changed and have that completed (which can take up to 2 weeks) before being able to do the transfer. I've had transfers knocked back because of the following reasons:

  1. One broker had my middle initial instead of my full middle name and the other had my full middle name;
  2. One broker had my street as "Ave" instead of "Avenue" and the other had "Avenue" - that was the most stupid reason I've ever come across!; and
  3. As an EPOA (enduring power of attorney) for a relative, I tried to move some shares across from an account in joint names into an account in the name of the surviving person after their spouse had passed away - that one took 8 weeks - including having to provide a certified copy of the death certificate and the EPOA documents, changing the name of the joint account into the name of the surviving person, and then changing it again to include a middle name, so that everything matched the other broker account details.

But if the name and address is the same, the transfers are free and simple and can be requested through the website of the broker where you want the shares transferred to (don't do it from the broker where the shares are to be transferred FROM, because they will likely try to find problems or drag their feet) - and will usually take up to two working days, but occasionally three, and sometimes I have had it happen instantly, but only twice.

Hope that helps @Hackofalltrades

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Bear77
a month ago

In terms of whether you can ignore the registry stuff they post out to you whenever you buy shares in a new company, the reason why people usually need to have accounts with those registries is because you have to use them to provide your TFN otherwise they can apply withholding tax to your dividends because your TFN has not been declared to them.

Other options through registry accounts include picking how you want the registry and the company you've bought shares in to communicate with you - i.e. electronically or through the mail, which can really cut down on snail mail and clutter if you go 100% electronic, and those options include whether or not you want an annual report, and how you want that delivered (hard copy or emailed link), plus your bank account details.

Some online brokers have an option where they will provide your authority automatically to the respective registry with every new company you purchase shares in, to have your bank account updated by them, i.e. the broker, usually to an account with them - and when that option is switched on, the respective share registries will send you snailmail to tell you that your bank account details have been updated, even when you haven't done it yourself. I believe some brokers also have the option to provide your TFN to share registries, but none of mine do - which may be because the law prohibits anyone from providing your TFN to anybody other than the ATO or a nominated agent/representitive of the ATO; that used to be the case, not sure if it still is. Organisations and companies can provide your TFN to different divisions of their own company as necessary, but they were never allowed to share it with other companies or organisations (other than the ATO as I said) without your explicit permission. Not sure if that has now changed or not.

So the main reason for accessing the share registries is to provide your TFN and your bank account details if your broker doesn't do that on your behalf, and communication options is the third slightly less important reason.

A fourth is that you can choose to participate in companies' DRPs through their registry, and nominate the percentage of your dividends you want to participate with. You can also switch off DRP (dividend reinvestment plan) involvement through those registries. The default is always that you are NOT enrolled in their DRP, so if you do NOT want to reinvest dividends through DRPs then you don't need to do anything regarding that. You won't be in their DRP unless you have requested to be, either via snailmail or online.

DRP involvement creates a CGT nightmare when you eventually sell by the way.

I prefer to reinvest my dividends when I choose to at prices I choose to pay, rather than use DRPs.

Most share registries will let you update your settings for a single holding without creating an account with the registry - as explained in the snailmail they send you, but if you have a bunch of holdings who use the same registry then it's often easier to have an account and be able to apply changes to multiple holdings at the same time.

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RogueTrader
a month ago

Thanks for pointing out the "CGT nightmare" - I just agreed to participate in some DRP's recently and have changed my mind now!

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Bear77
a month ago

It's not always a "nightmare" exactly @RogueTrader but I've had a few that were close - including Employee Share Plans (ESPs) with former employers where I also participated in their DRP (Coca-Cola was the worst because they changed registries as well as ESP providers). If you use Sharesight or keep really good records it can be... "not too bad", but the thing to remember is that every new DRP distribution via shares creates another starting point for another CGT event when those shares are eventually sold, and each share issue to you via a DRP (like, every 6 months) has a different cost base, so a different CGT calculation has to be performed for every issue of shares through a DRP when you do sell those shares. Some registries/companies do provide you with great historical data when you need it, others, not so much. So I've been in enough "how did I get into this mess?!?" situations now to simply avoid DRPs - but that's not advice, just my own experience.

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Bear77
a month ago

I should have prefaced my comments with a quick explanation @Hackofalltrades - since you asked about the point of registries - A share registry is a company (there are around 5 or 6 of them currently active in Australia) that every ASX-listed company must nominate (and pay) to keep track of who owns their shares at any given point in time, the details of those shareholders, and what their preferences and choices are in terms of bank account details, TFN, communication options, DRP involvement (when a DRP is active) etc, and also acts as a point of contact between the company and their owners (shareholders) so that the company doesn't have to devote people and resources to such matters.

It is my understanding that it is part of the regulatory framework required by the ASX and/or ASIC that all Australian publically listed companies use a registered / approved share registry rather than manage their own shares in-house. If my memory serves, either AFIC (AFI) or Argo (ARG) used to (like 15 or 20 years ago) manage their own shares without using a registry company, but they were told they had to, so now they do use one.

The largest Australian share registry, which is also global, is Computershare, with Link Market Services being the second largest and I reckon Boardroom (a.k.a. InvestorServe) is probably third although Automic did have a fair bit of the speculative mining sector sewn up last time I looked so they could be bigger than Boardroom now. There's was also one called Advanced Share Registry but they either changed their name to Automic Group or were taken over by Automic Group. There may be others.

Ideally, your broker would provide all the details necessary to the company's share registry whenever you buy into a new company, but as things stand today, they provide only your name and address as listed on your CHESS holding statements (the ones that get mailed to you at the end of every month as long as you made at least one buy or sell during that month). They may also provide your bank account details if they're set up to do that and you've chosen that option within the broker website. TFNs remain an issue, however many share registries are happy for you to supply it to them once and then they'll apply it to all of your holdings that are under the same HIN, but others want you to provide it for every new company you buy into. To my knowledge, no brokers pass on communications choices to registries, however many registries now have either mostly or fully electronic as their default option (if you don't over-ride that) and some will use that default option even if they do not have an email address listed for you, which begs the question, where are they sending your electronic mail to? Answer - they aren't sending it anywhere, they're just not sending it - when they don't have your email address. So - these gaps in communication between the broker and the various share registries used by the various companies that you hold shares in, means that most people do have to update their details with these registries, at least sometimes.

And when I was talking about communication options in those earlier posts in this thread - I forgot to mention that one of the main things you might want to update with each registry is your current email address. Otherwise, you may miss out on receiving important information, such as dividend statements. Not as important these days since that info is usually uploaded to the ATO directly from the share registries - as long as they have your TFN - and pre-populated in your tax return each year - so less need for record-keeping these days in relation to declaring dividend income to the ATO. Other things that they may be trying to email to you include details of rights issues or SPPs (share purchase plans) and application forms for those, reports, important announcements, and sometimes information relating to filling out your tax return (which your accountant or tax agent will need if you use one of them to do your taxes). An example is a managed fund or a LIC or LIT (listed investment company or trust) where there are overseas earnings or AMIT amounts on the AMMA - see here for an example: https://www.airliefundsmanagement.com.au/sites/airlie/assets/File/2024-MC476---AMIT-Guidelines---AASF-vF.pdf

Less of a problem with ordinary companies that don't invest in other companies, but certainly important with LICs/LITs and especially managed funds. In short, make sure each share registry either has your email address or else knows that you want everything posted out to your postal address or you may miss out on receiving something that actually is important.

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Bear77
a month ago

Final point - if you are ever wondering which share registry a particular listed company is currently using (as they do change to different ones every now and then, probably because they've found cheaper ones) - you can get that info from near the end of their annual reports where they list their auditors, their share registry, their head office address, etc., and you can also often get it from their website if they have an "investors" section. If all else fails, you can just Google "What share registry does ARB Corporation use?" - substituting the name of your company for ARB Corporation. Use the company's full name rather than just their ticker code for a better or more accurate result. Sometimes you'll get multiple different answers to that though, if they've used two or more different share registries during the past decade or so, so make sure you find the most recent one.

Finding out their share registry using their Annual Report is usually the most accurate method - however those can take some time to load when they are really long. If using the Annual Report, I start at the end and work backwards because that's the sort of info they put at or near the end.

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SudMav
a month ago

I tend to search for the market index website for the registry. they are pretty good at having the right registry there on the page. If not right then I check the annual report. https://www.marketindex.com.au/asx/arb


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RogueTrader
a month ago

Yeh @Bear77 it sure sounds like a potential nightmare now that I've googled it a bit. I like to keep things simple myself. I don't use Sharesight either as I've read too many negative reports on them. (I stick to Excel myself.)

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lowway
a month ago

And the asx.com.au summary for each company has the share registry info on the bottom of each company's summary page (see attached example for ARB) @Bear77

Nothing to add to your other info, you nailed @Hackofalltrades queries in great detail.


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Bear77
a month ago

Here's that link @lowway - https://www.asx.com.au/markets/company/arb

And of course you are 100% correct - that is obviously THE most accurate and quickest method of finding out who an ASX-listed companies' share registry is - scroll down to the "About ARB" section (or whichever company you're looking up) and it's right there.

And @SudMav - your marketindex method also works. Of those two however, I would guess that the ASX site is probably updated the quickest when a company does change to a different share registry, so I'd probably go with the ASX site for that myself (now) just on that basis (of accuracy).

Both a LOT quicker than trawling through an Annual Report, even if you do it from the back.

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