Forum Topics The oil price and its implications
Bear77
4 years ago

https://www.energynewsbulletin.net/finance-legal/news/1384226/‘oil-price-war’-claims-first-shale-victim

Many believe that this outcome - US Shale Oil companies going broke - is one of the outcomes Russia is after out of their price war with Suadi Arabia.  Lots of talk so far from Trump but only talk.  He hasn't done anything to prop up his US on-shore oil producers other than try to talk up the oil price and suggest that production cuts from both Russia and the Saudis were coming.  It will be interesting.  The USA had become the world's largest oil producer in recent years.  That status may soon change if things continue as they have been in recent weeks.

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Chagsy
4 years ago

 

I won’t be buying for a while, I don’t think. I was highly tempted today but if we have a look at where we are in the big picture, there is probably going to be a fair bit more pain to come. These are just my thoughts and I am happy for others to point out any weaknesses or to disagree entirely:

  1. The number of cases of COVID-19 has only just started. All hopes of containment are gone. An estimated 30-70% of the population will get the virus over the next couple of years.The US has totally mucked up their initial management and I suspect the news will get increasingly hysterical for some weeks to come.

2. The selling at the moment is panic induced, not in response to any new information about how companies are going. It is difficult to see which firms are going to be issuing profit downgrades and by how much, given the supply and demand side of the equation are both going to get hammered. Making an informed decision as to how “cheap” a company is now, based on past earnings is pure guesswork. I suspect we are just anchoring to previous SP levels that were inflated to irrational levels, not making a rational assessment of the future prospects of those companies.

3. No one is clear how long the economic effects of the pandemic will be felt. I am guessing that the medical effects will be around for 12-18 months. Investors go through a series of well recognised stages, a bit like a grief reaction, but at some point capitulation and despair set in. This should be when the valuations are at their best. The flip side is that panic only lasts for so long, so there may be some rally in response to panic fatigue, however I don’t think that will be enough to over-ride the worsening economic data.

4. My portfolio iwas very much invested in growth companies. Generally these trade on elevated multiples during the good times but crash spectacularly during the bad times. There is usually a lag time after a recession when improved economic indicators start to appear and the SP has not yet recovered or reflected this. That may be the safest window to aim to buy in as further losses are considerably less likely. At the moment we have no idea how bad things are going to get.

If you have spare cash then exercising extreme caution, patience and restraint will be challenging when we have always been taught to buy on dips.

You can probably guess that I don’t think this is a “dip” but something far more substantial and would recommend waiting for hard data before dipping your toe back in.

I don’t trust myself to do this effectively as I am already seeing bargains everywhere, so will be handing all my cash to Joe Magyar and Matt Joass to do it for me in about 6 months time.(lakehouse capital and maven funds respectively)

as to the collapse in oil prices:

the bigger risk may contagion in US corporate bond markets. Lots of highly leveraged non-profitable shale drillers are going to go bust . Banks and financial institutions will take a big Hit, and everyone stops lending to each other in a rerun of GFC liquidity crunch. I don't think this is likely but if stocks drop much more into recession territory then a lot of margin calls will come home to roost as well, more panic etc etc

As always best of luck!

 

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Strawman
4 years ago

A big drop in the price of oil has a lot of far ranging consequences. 

Good for consumers, but a lot of industry and credit market negatives. A good overview here: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/08/putin-sparks-an-oil-price-war-and-us-companies-may-be-the-victims.html

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Strawman
4 years ago

Definitely need to look at it on a company specific basis. The correlation depends on a lot of different variables, and will be very different for different enterprises. My advice is look at a reasonable estimate of 'through the cycle' earnings, and base your judgement of value on that.

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Bear77
4 years ago

The following is part of an article published this morning by Greg Peel at FNArena.com (part of their "overnight report"): By Greg Peel Oil Wars It had been anticipated that were Russia not to agree to OPEC’s proposed additional production cuts of -1.5mbpd the oil price would plunge, and indeed it did on Friday night by -10%. What no one saw coming was Saudi Arabia’s response. If Russia is going to go it alone, so is Saudi Arabia. OPEC and Russia got together to agree on production cuts after the oil shock of 2016, which was driven by the spike in US shale production. Those production cuts had held ever since, right up until Friday when further cuts were proposed by OPEC. When Russia said no, not only did this imply the additional cuts would not occur but that the prior cuts are now out the window. The agreement expires on April 1. Saudi Arabia will now fight on volume over price. One might assume OPEC is dead in the water. Russia, it is assumed, has become fed up with carrying the can and wants to break the US shale industry. The Saudis don’t want to have to carry the can alone. The Saudis can produce oil at a cost of US$20/bbl. For Russia it’s more like US$40/bbl. For marginal US shale producers, the cut-off is above US$45/bbl. Saudi Arabia’s and Russia’s oil industries are state-owned (the Aramco float is negligible) and both carry large cash war chests for just such a development. The US oil industry is free market, and for many smaller operations, heavily leveraged. The Fallout I LNG export prices are indexed to the crude oil price. The most leveraged of Australia’s big oil & gas producers is Oil Search ((OSH)), hence yesterday it fell -35%. There followed Santos ((STO)) on -27%, energy industry contractors NRW Holdings ((NWH)) and Worley ((WOR)), with -20% drops, and Beach Energy’s ((BPT)) -19% rounded out the top five ASX200 losers. Australia’s biggest O&G company by a margin, Woodside Petroleum ((WPL)), fell -18%. The energy sector fell -20%. All other sectors fell in a distinct range from defensive to cyclical. Utilities fared best with a -2.1% fall. Materials came in behind energy with -9.5%, which is interesting given the amount of fiscal stimulus about to hit the planet, but we recall BHP Group ((BHP)) is also an oil producer, and it fell -14%. Rival Rio Tinto ((RIO)) which is not in oil, fell only -6%. The IT sector took bronze with -9.0% and then we drop down to the banks on -7.6%. Another RBA rate cut in April is now considered a given, and NAB economists are predicting QE by May. The risk of a recession is now also heightened, which could break the long run of benign bad and doubtful debts levels for the banks. All other sectors fell by diminishing amounts by level of defensiveness. To underscore the widespread nature of the selling yesterday, the ASX200 top five leaders’ board only had three stocks on it, because only three of two hundred closed in the green. Fisher & Paykal Healthcare ((FPH)) recently upgraded guidance due to virus-driven demand for its medical products in China. It rose 3.0%. Newcrest Mining ((NCM)) gained 2.5% as gold held its ground, while utility infrastructure company Spark Infrastructure ((SKI)) rose 0.5%. The ASX200 fell -7.3% yesterday ahead of the S&P500 falling -7.6% overnight. One would assume, thus, that we got in first and another big drop in response to Wall Street would be double-counting. Our futures are down -273 points this morning. The Fallout II The world has seen many oil shocks over the years, either demand-driven, such as the airline shutdown following 9/11, or supply-driven, such as the OPEC shocks of the 1970s and more recently the US shale explosion of 2016. But last night oil industry veterans could not recall oil markets suffering a simultaneous hit on both sides. Typically a big fall in the oil price would lead to buying elsewhere in those sectors that benefit, such as airlines and transport, for which oil is the primary cost, through to consumer discretionary, which benefits from more money in consumer pockets. But last night everything was trashed on Wall Street. Lower oil prices are no comfort, at least not yet, to US transport companies when no container ships are arriving from China. There’s no comfort for airlines when their planes are grounded and no one’s flying. If retailer shelves are emptying due to factory shutdowns in China, there’s nothing to buy, even if consumers felt it a good time to do so, which given recession talk, they probably don’t. When Wall Street opened last night trading was only ten minutes in when it shut down again. The -7% circuit breaker was tripped, halting trade for five minutes. It worked, to the extent that the market calmed down. I’d wager that the computers were confused by a circuit breaker – many being too young to recall the last one (GFC) – hence from thereon trading was described as “orderly”, despite the Dow ultimately closing down over -2000 points. When Wall Street was halted, the US ten-year bond yield was hitting 0.32%. That was a -39 basis point fall. The yield quickly rebounded, presumably as investors sold bonds to cover stock losses, and ultimately the ten-year closed down -21 points at 0.50%. While the energy sector was clearly the worst performer on the day, the banks were close behind. There’s not a lot of earnings upside when the cash rate’s 1.0% and ten year’s out is 0.5%. But there is also the small issue of smaller US oil companies being highly leveraged. While the US majors have minimal loan exposure to the industry, some smaller regional banks are heavily exposed. Long before the virus even appeared, the greatest level of concern in US credit markets was reserved for oil companies. Putin knows that. Only a handful of S&P500 companies closed in the green last night. Smaller oil companies fell as much as -50% in the session. Only one Dow stock closed in the green – Walmart, seller of toilet paper. And right now, everyone’s ______ themselves. -------------- end of excerpt --- but there is more available on FNArena.com ------ I note that despite a very significant drop in the oil price overnight, Australia's energy companies are now actually up today, with COE up the most at midday (+7.3%), with BPT up 5.5% and WPL up 4%. Perhaps yesterday's sell-off was overdone? Regarding the winners and losers argument. Unfortunately, due to COVID-19, the winners from a lower oil price have their own problems. For example - Airlines are big winners from cheaper aviation fuel, but COVID-19 hurts them more than most. Due to the fallout and fear surrounding this coronavirus epidemic that has expanded further and faster than many had anticipated, the silver linings can be hard to identify for many. For myself, I consider this as a great buying opportunity. However, I certainly understand that it may - and probably will - get worse before it gets better. The question then is when do you go "all-in" (fully invested) in times of such opportunity? Everyone will have to work that out for themselves. I think those that are fully invested today (and I'm very close) will do well in 1, 2 and 3 years' time. A bear market might ruin that 1 or 2 year forecast, but looking out to 3 to 5 years, I think these prices are going to look pretty good in hindsight. That doesn't mean things won't get even cheaper first however.

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