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Pinned straw:

Added 3 months ago

1.5 years ago, I detailed some of my main gripes with Credit Clear in the following forum post: https://strawman.com/forums/topic/6847

The TL;DR: Credit Clear tends to oversell the idea that they’re an AI and machine learning software company when, in reality, they’re more of a collections services company that uses software. While my opinion on that hasn’t changed much, I now find the business more interesting and have added it to both my personal and Strawman portfolios.

As a bit of background, Credit Clear is a collections services company. They help organizations recover overdue bills and loans, from the time a bill is issued up to around 180 days past due.

29c76170fbbbdda8d6a4380bc472473859f607.png

Many organisations require these types of services, as managing overdue payments internally can be a real headache. That’s why Credit Clear, along with many competitors, exists. Collection services companies collect overdue debts on the behalf of banks, credit unions, lenders, utilities, local, various levels of government, B2B companies, and essentially any business facing late payments.

Debts more 180 days overdue are generally considered highly impaired, and organisations may consider selling these to debt purchasing companies at cents on the dollar. The two largest debt purchasing companies in Australia - both listed on the ASX - are Credit Corp (CCP.AX) and Pioneer Credit (PNC.AX).

In the collections services space, Credit Clear is likely the second-largest player in Australia and New Zealand, after Credit Corp, with FY24 revenues of $42.2m compared to Credit Corp’s $75.5m.

828253dd92e87fae3e3b71164be4bf2da646a7.pngEBIT Normalised is EBIT excluding amortisation of customer contracts from prior acquisitions

There are several things I like about the company:

  1. In FY24, Credit Clear inflected into free cashflow positive, and is close to profitability. EBIT, excluding the amortisation of customer contracts from previous acquisitions, was just -$900k.
  2. The revenue growth of +17.5% was largely organic growth. A small acquisition of an insurance collections company in Nov 2023 contributed, but even adjusting for this, revenue growth was still a healthy +14.5%. The company is guiding for revenue to grow +16% in FY25 mostly through the expansion of work with existing wins.
  3. Over the past 1.5 years, the company has become less promotional and more conservative. For example, FY24 guidance started on 30-Aug-2023 at $39-41m revenue and $1-2m underlying EBITDA (uEBITDA), and ended up at $42m revenue and $4.2m uEBITDA after multiple upgrades during the year.
  4. Gaining traction. In Q4 FY24, the company went live with collections for ANZ Bank. Following consistent performance, Credit Clear has been allocated increased share of ANZ’s debt portfolios. There will be more upside should they continue to outperform the other panelists. This case study will no doubt help strengthen its position in winning with other potential customers.
  5. There’s still considerable runway in Australia/NZ, in particular in segments where CCR has limited presence like federal government departments. International expansion, particularly in markets like the UK, is another possibility. Since Credit Clear collects debts on behalf of clients without taking on balance sheet risk (unlike debt purchasers), the risks of expanding abroad should be relatively low.
  6. The most exciting development for me is the area I was previously critical of - Credit Clear’s “AI company” narrative. While I believe they over-egged the AI sales pitch in the past, since the advent of ChatGPT, the sales pitch of having an AI assisted collections workflow no doubt has become a much more powerful one. In fact, its key subsidiary ARMA has increased its customer win rate increase from 30% to 70% in the space of a few years.
  7. There are signs of operating leverage. Gross margins are improving, with 40% of incremental revenue converting to Normalised EBIT in FY23, and 55% in FY24. The FY25 guidance projects a 37% conversion rate this year.


On the downside, Credit Clear isn’t an obvious bargain at current prices. An EV/S of around 2.5x isn’t cheap for a business services company with 53% gross margins, especially one that still requires collections staff to scale and is only just reaching profitability. However, if they can continue growing organically at a healthy pace and drive operating leverage, earnings could improve rapidly.

I believe that large language models (LLMs) and machine learning technologies are advancing rapidly and will significantly transform the operations of contact center businesses like Credit Clear over the next decade. These advancements will lead to increased efficiency, greater automation, and the displacement of tasks traditionally performed by humans. Credit Clear appears well-positioned to capitalise on these trends. As one of the larger collections services company in Australia and New Zealand, they have the scale to invest in in-house technology platforms and leverage technological advancements. Furthermore, having been initially established as a software-only company, improving efficiency through technology is a core part of the group’s DNA.

I’m interested to track the continued progress with ANZ. Credit Clear has been collecting debt for ANZ for the past 3-6 months and increased work from a small position on one portfolio to a bigger piece in 3 portfolio. Management claims they have a leading recovery rate compared to competitors on the same panel, exceeding them by over 50%, and they also lead in most other metrics. Increased work-share with ANZ will showcase how their technology focus and scale provide a quantitative advantage over competitors. This will serve as valuable collateral for the sales team, potentially leading to more wins and further market share gains.

Strawman
Added 2 months ago

It's just been pointed out to me that I missed the Slido questions for the interview with CreditClear's Andrew Smith -- my apologies for that!

Slido has a new UI and I (clearly) was not looking at the right screen..

I'll see if I can get a response from Andrew on some of them.

Also, I must apologise for the lack of presence here on Strawman in recent days. Have been preoccupied with some other unavoidable stuff, but I do want to share some initial thoughts on this meeting.

First off, I found it noteworthy that Andrew and the team have very much delivered in line with what was said during our 2022 interview. Certainly helps you put more faith in the story.

Also, it really does seem like some good operating leverage is starting to develop. If they can maintain the pace of revenue growth they really have the potential to triple earnings, or more, in the next few years. And there really does seem to be some good revenue momentum.

This is backed by some high-profile, high-value customer wins, and deepening relationships. It was very interesting what Andrew was saying in terms of the upfront costs of onboarding vs lifetime revenues.

They are winning a good amount of market share, which is a reflection of the genuine value they provide their customers. They clearly have an eye on the UK, but aren't naïve to the challenges. Besides, lots of room for continued organic growth here first.

Also, being cash flow positive, with $13m in cash, puts them on a pretty firm footing. And while much of the market is worried over all the various macro challenges, CreditClear is set to benefit from that. In fact, what Andrew said on the rise in bad debts across their customer set was VERY interesting -- it feels like there's some signal there.

I think what @mushroompanda has already said on CreditClear is also worth emphasizing, despite all the guff on AI at the moment, they really do seem to be exploiting the technology very effectively and in a way that should see the advantages compound a little over time. And they were leaning into this stuff well before it was cool.

Anyway -- I think I will take a watching position pending a deeper dive. It seems to tick a lot of boxes, and the company is at a very interesting stage.

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mushroompanda
Added 2 months ago

That was a great interview @Strawman. The conversational style definitely brings out the best in Andrew, and he seems less guarded than on the results conference calls. I listened to the recording half distracted, so I’ll need to go back and re-listen. But here are some points that stood out to me.

  1. Andrew is finally coming to the conclusion that Credit Clear is a collections services business and not a software business - @Strawman essentially stated this and there was no push back, only agreement. All their attempts to provide a software-only offering have failed, and collection services has been where all their traction has been. Any international expansion will be going in as a collection services company - not by providing the software to a third party in a “partnership”.
  2. He provided some metrics on how CCR were out-competing the other 3rd party collections businesses on the ANZ Bank panel - they’re beating the next best by 20% (ie. 24% vs 20% collection rate). This is super encouraging if it continues - as they’ll be given an increasing share of ANZ’s business and it’ll also help greatly with winning new clients.
  3. A lot of the expected growth is coming from the expansion of existing business and newly onboarded customers. This can be seen by management’s confidence in providing ~16% revenue growth guidance a year out.
  4. Major competitors have been distracted - failed businesses, regulator issues, consolidation, getting bought out. This has allowed CCR to sail in as a genuine Tier 1 collection services business. It feels as though all the cylinders are firing right at this moment, and they’re gaining increasing share with relative ease.

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Strawman
Added 3 months ago

Great pitch @mushroompanda

I've just emailed the CEO to see if he's keen for another interview. The last one was 2022, so it would be great to get an update on things.

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