Forum Topics CU6 CU6 Risks

Pinned straw:

Added 2 months ago

Listening to the Alan Taylor interview and Strawman comments got me thinking more about risk.

As an individual Alan Taylor is pretty impressive. Coming from a modest background where his Maltese parents busted themselves to send him to Waverly College, he went on to win the university medal at SU in applied science, completed a science Phd and spent 15 years in investment banking. As a young man he reached reserve grade NRL with Eastern Suburbs. I am sure he has plenty of faults, however this guy is clearly not just another blabber-mouth CEO phony.    

Many investors take the line Biotechs are too risky, and this is true. However if you think about Alan Taylor at CU6, John Pilcher at NEU, Matt Callaghan and Howie McKibbon at BOT -  all have clearly articulated the business hurdles, how they intent to overcome them and what the prize at the other end looks like.  And they have not come across, nor can I find evidence they are spivs. Promoters yes -and they have to be.

Contrast this with so many previously called by some as “safe” industrial stocks, a few of which have recently crashed.  The Star Entertainment Group (SGR) with gross breaches of the regulatory framework including money laundering.  Lifestyle Communities (LIC), in many ways can be argued is a species of Ponzi scheme.  Its business model being based on increasing asset revaluations, taking on debt and duping gullible retirees into fee traps.  Johns Lyng Group (JLG) for whom a large part of their business is built around a nefarious link between owing strata management companies that get JLG to quote overpriced building maintenance works, and then gull sleepy strata committee members to accept the rip-off quotes.   

Essentially these business models have been built, in part on a lie. Lies management spent considerable time and effort concealing from investors.  

CU6 may or may not live up to expectations. Maybe the above thinking about CU6 is both too simple and wrong.  However, as an investor if you have the time at least you can get some understanding of the Science Risk and can take some comfort the Spiv Risk is likely fairly low. 

mikebrisy
Added 2 months ago

@Scoonie I largely agree with what you've written here. Indeed, I could easily find myself adding $CU6 to my portfolio, to join $BOT, $NEU and $TLX. (I'd also add $PNV to the list, even though its not a molecule but a "device platform".)

For $CU6 the value from here in the success case is undeniable. In the cases of $BOT, $NEU and $PNV, I have a very clear view of the value and risks. For $TLX I have an initial view, and for $CU6 I am haven't done the work yet. What is quite tempting is the high success rate off the initial small number of patients in the trial. I'm slightly trapped in the logic that I won't get comfortable with my assessment of chance of success, until there is more data. But in that case, the market will have already processed that into the price, and I'll be left on the outside.

Putting volatility to one side, I think the market is behaving reasonably efficiently towards information from the likes of $PNV and $TLX. I think it isn't for $BOT and $NEU.

My sense is that $CU6 is getting a lot of focus, and analysts have quite a good handle on it. What this means - based on past experience - is that I need to wait for some - on the face of it - bad news. Perhaps an FDA delay, or a misreading of data.

A clear example was $BOT, where the labelling delay created a clear opportunity for me to increase my position at a subdued price. The same with the $ACAD DAYBUE downgrade for $NEU. And also short squeezes years ago for $PNV.

I never get onboard with these biotechs early enough to enjoy the 10x or 100x opportunities. But patience I have learned is a virture and it is important to pay a fair price and not overpay.

On a risk-weighted view, I think $CU6 is worth more than today's SP. But I'd like the risk reward profile to be a little more in my favour. Any yes, I know that leads to the risk that I miss out.

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Aaronfzr
Added 2 months ago

Really balanced view @mikebrisy. On the flipside, how many completely failed speculative investments do you need to nab that 10-bagger? I've got a few made as a younger man and yet to make a 10x. Rudi made a comment on a podcast a few weeks ago that really resonated with me as a now-middle aged investor: something to the effect of "you didn't need to buy $XRO at $6 to make good money". Depending on one's risk profile its totally reasonable to let a business prove itself as viable before investing. And statistically, most of the growth companies experience occurs after entry to the ASX200.

Having said that, I'm inclined to take a nibble and potentially DCA on the way up. Telix is further ahead in the pipeline and is making great strategic moves, but I'd buy a hedge against CU6 having a superior product in the long run.

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edgescape
Added 2 months ago

Just quickly want to answer the question on why no one has taken a bite on Clarity

  1. Clarity is still in Phase 2 or perhaps earlier stage. The trend is for big pharma companies like to get something that is in late Phase 2 to Phase 3 where there is a lot more data.
  2. There is still a few unknowns on the technique and a bit more skepticism in the technology that is very new and radical which goes back to point 1.
  3. I haven't taken careful look at holdings, but I thought there was a high level of insider ownership which can be a double-edged sword.


I noticed there was one biotech fund that reduced their holdings around the time I reduced mine. In hindsight, both of us may have acted too early although that parcel was fairly small (basically my initial outlay).

So I think what you are buying now is management and that is what got me here when the market cap was still under 200m. Biggin's track record is also good with that FDA approved drug Xofigo and lots of use cases written on it.

But as they say, past performance or history does not predict future performance. Just merely makes the probability a bit more reassuring.


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mikebrisy
Added 2 months ago

@Aaronfzr I've heard Rudi say that many times. And he's right. There are lot's of opportunities to get on.... and it is easy to spot them and time them, in hind sight.

But let's say that the $CU6 prostate products both fail (what are the odds,... 20% - 40% from here?). SP goes from $7.67 to $1.00 in the next year, and 3 years advances while they bring forward the next candidate. If the platform is successful, the company might still be worth $50 in 10 years, and you've earned a 20% annual ROI, even though you've not done well for a 5-6 year period by getting the timing wrong.

Personally, I don't like that level of volatility. By contrast, consider $NEU. SP has pulled back 50% on DAYBUE downgrade and short thesis, combined. Still, it's not yet back to my average cost base (and I've cashed some profits along the way). Can it get worse? Potentially, but it's probably going to get a lot better both due to multiple DAYBUE upsides and the potential NNZ-2591 future blockbuster (50% CoS from here) with multiple indications.(The next measurement point for me is the Q3 DAYBUE number.)

Coming back to $CU6. A material pullback would be part of my calculus for $CU6. As you say, DCA on the way up, and equally, if there are upsets but the platform thesis remains intact, top up on material pullbacks - whether through a major macro-correction or just on some bad news. So, my finger is poised on the trigger for the first 1/3rd position (2%).

In healthcare, I've never had anything go to zero. In fact, I've mostly made good returns. But I don't buy at the very speccy stage, and so I don't expect any to go to zero.... or maybe only 1 in 10, because if I am right in my risking, that's what should happen.

Another approach is do the research and buy 20 Stage 1/Stage 2 companies, hoping that 2 or 3 make it to compensate for all the ones that fail. Its perfectly valid and some investors are good at that. I prefer to enter once there is an approved product and even preferrably a revenue stream. Buy at a good price, and ride the growth curve and the follow-on products. (Like buying $XRO at $19.36, and $WTC at $5.33 which is about where I did 8 years ago.)

My reason for choosing to be later to the party in biotech is that, generally speaking, there is more information readily accessible to the diligent retail investor. More published studies, approvals, knowledge of pricing and economics, the beginnings of the s-curve etc. I am more comfortable assessing value and risk when I can see more of these puzzle pieces. That suits my risk appetite. But patience is important because invariably these stocks continue to be volatile even at the later stages, and there is a lot of option value in taking advantage of that volatility.

There are so many different, valid approaches. What's important is to be clear about what kind of investor you are. When we are discussing stocks here it is always important to recognise that members will express views on a stock through the lens of their own risk appetite.

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