Forum Topics DDR DDR Investment decision

Pinned straw:

Added 3 months ago

My DDR Thesis is as follows.

Very keen to hear from anyone with a different view / other insights!

It's a bit wordy / long winded as these are effectively notes to myself and it's a live document, so may be a little rough, hopefully it makes sense to others who know the business.


Summary

I see Dicker Data (DDR) as a high quality business with Short Term issues and limited downside.

For this reason I see significant potential upside from the current share price of ~$8.50 (Mkt Cap of $1.5bn).

I expect returns to come from improving fundamentals driving NPAT (and DPS) growth leading to an improvement in sentiment (multiple expansion) over the medium term (1-2 years).

 

Quality

The quality aspects include the longevity of a business that has been built over 4 decades by a founder CEO & Chair (intelligent fanatic) and run by empowered, aligned deputies – mainly Vlad, COO (14 years) and Mary (CFO).

Other indicators are niche market leadership in AUS, and gaining on this in NZ.

Sources of moat mainly scale, some network effects (more vendors are better for customers and vice versa) and probably cultural moat. All evidenced by sustained high ROE & ROIC (> WACC). The IP of LT vendor relationships, customer contacts, deep industry experience, etc also hard to replicate by others.

Niche market should keep bigger well resourced operators out (eg. Amazon is unlikely to enter).

Low NPAT Margins on the surface suggest low quality but they’re much higher than competitors (DDR 3%+ vs Competitors ~1%) and a significant barrier to entry so I see their margins as indicative of quality.

Market share growth - Vlad has mentioned that they take more market share in tougher economic conditions. I see this as a great indicator of business quality and long term, opportunistic thinking by management (as long as they are not overly sacrificing margins to do it).

 

Short Term Issues

PC refresh cycle low, business cyclical low w bad debt provision hitting NPAT and slower collections hitting Op CF, loss of vendors (mainly Autodesk), founder (forced) selling stock at higher prices hitting sentiment, weaker financials with flat FY revenue, first fall in FY DPS in 7 years and 21% fall in 1H NPAT (the worst HoH in >4 years).

Vendor loss. Losing Autodesk was significant – but that has now happened and they can’t lose them again (could lose others though). It was not a loss to a competitor, as Autodesk now going direct. Would be concerning if this becomes a trend – especially with big vendors. This concern partly offset with the addition of Adobe and being the only full suite reseller of Nvidia.

Mgmt - Concerns from David selling down shares to settle (another!) divorce, only zooming into the AGM (due to death threats!) and not showing up to the 1H 24 Call.

 

Potential reversal of fortunes?

Business cycle at a low? Interest rates stabilised from the fastest rise in history. Potential for cuts – other economies already cutting w RBA to follow in FY25 all else being equal.

For DDR internally this means financing costs should have stabilised and may even fall if they manage debt down over time, but I expect them to maintain some debt (for funding inventory).

Natural PC refresh cycle to be aided by Windows 10 support expiry, and AI optimised PC’s hitting the market. This should turn a recent headwind into a decent tailwind as 30% of sales are PC related.

I’m not expecting boom times, but also not expecting a deep or protracted recession (noting the per capita recession we’ve been in).

NZ market share and margins growing – to become a more meaningful contributor to NPAT growth – especially at the margin.

Investing for growth largely done via additional headcount and warehouse expansion with optionality for more space if required.

Growing contribution from higher margin software sales (although a concern that distributors could be cut out in time – see Autodesk).

 

NPAT and Dividends

The policy to pay out 100% of NPAT as dividends provides dividend yield support.

This provides a strong incentive to mgmt. to grow NPAT through direct incentives (STI) and their personal holdings – especially Exec Chair and CEO, David Dicker who remains a significant shareholder and does not draw a material salary so is reliant on dividends to fund his expensive lifestyle.

I asked about the dividend policy at the FY23 AGM and came away with the impression that this is rusted on – as long as David remains Chair / CEO / on the board.

So I expect that dividends are likely to grow over time in line with Mgmt being strongly incentivised to grow NPAT and pay out 100% of NPAT as Dividends.

Except for last year (-13%), DPS has compounded between 13-21% p.a. for the last 7 years.

 

Limited Downside

At $8.50 share price, the expected dividend of ~ $0.45 ($0.52 in FY22 and $0.45 in FY23) equates to a prospective Fully Franked Dividend Yield of 5.3%. Grossed up this 7.6% return is about 50% more than you can get in a Term Deposit.

The most recent Quarterly Dividend was $0.11 per share ($0.44 annualised).

I expect TD rates to fall and dividends to rise over time, so this gap should widen providing additional share price support.

Some Mgmt buying after recent price weakness from a result showing ST results were average but LT expected to improve. Management are eating their own cooking and running the business like the long term owner operators that they are.

 

Management

Trust is management is key for my thesis – partly because they are saying things about the future (bright) that are different from the past (dim).

David stepping down / sideways would likely cause investor concern but I expect this will happen sooner rather than later and I would be more worried about losing Vlad, or if David stepped back and Vlad was not promoted to CEO.

 

Other potential catalysts

ASX200 inclusion would attract passive flows but I don’t expect this any time soon. Sitting at the ~260th largest stock by market cap makes this seem possible with a 30% rise in the share price to $11 (all else remaining equal) but I expect liquidity / free float issues from NED Fiona Brown and others may stymie this.

The ASX 200 is “The 200 largest and most liquid stocks listed on the ASX by float-adjusted market capitalization“. Note that: “Stocks require a minimum Relative Liquidity of 50% for inclusion in the S&P/ASX 200” whereas this is only 30% for ASX300 inclusion which DDR is currently in. Source: https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/documents/methodologies/methodology-sp-asx-australian-indices.pdf

If the emerging AI opportunity sees DDR operate as a key ‘picks and shovels’ seller where AI is becoming table stakes for SME’s & SMB’s, there may be a material uptick in sales (may not be sustained though?). This may significantly boost sentiment / multiples. There’s been some buzz about the opportunity for JBH & Officeworks from selling AI capable hardware, so DDR will likely catch some of this at some point, especially as the pipeline comes into clearer view.

More broadly on AI – as this functionality gets embedded in most / all vendor offerings there may be a rush to buy / or shortened refresh cycle for the enhanced products (be they hardware, software or hardware capable of optimising AI enabled software).

NZ growth as a leading indicator for AUS cyclical recovery? It was noted by Vlad at the FY23 AGM that NZ’s downturn was more severe than AUS and NZ underperformed in 2023 as a result. This makes sense given NZ followed a steeper rate tightening cycle to AUS (as did most developed economies). If NZ’s current recovery (in 1H 24) is leading AUS as would make sense, a cyclical trough may be in or close by with a stabilisation / upswing over the next 12-24 months.

M&A into other verticals / geographies – NZ is working out nicely after M&A there. I see a risk that if DDR continue to approach ANZ market saturation this may be a handbrake on organic growth, so they may need to look elsewhere. It might then make sense to utilise their capabilities and relationships to extend their offering into new markets (generally lower risk) or new products / verticals (generally higher risk) via M&A. Not expecting this any time soon though.

Continued growth in NZ market share and margins sees more benefits of scale as DDR are able to negotiate ANZ wide deals with vendors (not just AUS & NZ siloed deals). This improved scale may also benefit inventory management across the region.

 

Risks

Increased willingness for vendors to go direct (like Autodesk). This may make sense if the vendor is big enough to deploy their own sales capability and if they want to get closer to their end customers. This is probably more likely at the competitive, lower margin enterprise end of the market.

Threats from AI – could an AI app or capability provide a procurement department in an app? Could this circumvent distributors via a seamless discovery / procurement consultant capability? Anything seems possible with AI these days but if this threat or similar did emerge, DDR is well placed to see it early.

 

Competition

DDR’s Competition mainly comes from 3 global players headquartered in the US.

Ingram Micro (CA), TD Synnex (CA) and Westcon (NY) have weighted average shares of the ANZ market of 21%, 14% & 7% respectively (42% total) versus DDR’s share of 34%.

These are much bigger players with lower margins: Ingram EV = US$2.7bn, NPAT 0.7% and TD Synnex EV = US$13.9bn, NPAT 1.1% versus DDR EV = US $1.2bn, NPAT 3.3% (Westcon is private).

So DDR is the only significant sized locally based supplier. DDR are the biggest in AUS (35% vs Ingram’s 17%) and 2nd biggest in NZ with 29% vs Ingram’s 36%.

DDR is improving margins and Market share in NZ following some acquisitions there and expect to become the biggest in NZ organically from here.

Vlad (COO) claims to grow market share faster in down markets so this may have helped NZ grow share recently.

Smaller players in each market may provide additional scale if M&A looks attractive – but unlikely worth doing for global players.

ACCC unlikely an issue as it’s a B2B market and still fragmented.

 

Sentiment

Dec strong, June weakness – The last 3 June HY’s have seen Revenue and NPAT falling from the prior 6 months, so the Dec half is seasonally stronger than June halves. This June’s seasonal dip may have contributed to recent poor sentiment - following cyclically lower revenue after interest rate (and rent) rises have squeezed DDR’s end customers. Also, higher interest costs, costs from reinvesting in capacity growth, the founder selling shares at higher prices – a lot of things may have contributed to the current trailing 19x (forecast 19x) PE Multiple being in the bottom 25% of the last 5 year range.

There were a lot of brokers on the 1H 24 call and all had predictably short term focused questions. I’m surprised how many brokers cover DDR but this may be a function of their ASX300 inclusion and potential for a cap raise for M&A or to fund WC expansion? Or sniffing a chance to skim a block trade from David’s next forced sale event?

I expect that the analyst community and market more generally are waiting to see the numbers actually improve (or at least firm guidance is given when pipeline is clearer), by which time the opportunity will have at least partly receded. It will have also been partly de-risked.

A more prudent approach may be to wait for the first (clear) sign that the numbers are sustainably improving and confirmation of why – expected PC sales uptick, business cycle pressures easing, etc. Then to buy into an improved fundamental situation in line with expectations in anticipation of improving sentiment.

 

Next 6-12 months - Actuals and Outlook

Next indication of this is likely to come close to 31st Oct when DDR typically release a Q3 update to market.

However Q3 is the weakest seasonally, so the outlook statement is likely most interesting, especially if they provide firm / narrow FY Guidance.

Q4 24 should be an absolute belter (H2 is the strongest half and Q3 is the weakest quarter, so Q4 must be the strongest quarter seasonally) – and it would be a big concern if it was not.

Next stop is FY24 reporting at end Feb, then AGM Preso in May-25. If these show significant growth in NPAT actuals and outlook, the share price could be materially higher in 6-12 short months.

If not, it may take longer or there could be some other hiccup / hit to sentiment. This is where the quality of the business and dividend support (being paid to wait) should minimise downside.

 

Valuation

From current price of $8.50, a 10% RRR could be earned if in 5 years NPAT Margin is 3.3% (3.3% in FY22, 3.6% in FY23), 5yr PE is 21x (80% of 5 year historical average), 5yr Revenue CAGR is 9.5% (last 5 year average).

I think the 5 year NPAT Margin and Multiple are likely conservative but Revenue CAGR may be harder to hit.

On balance I would expect a TSR CAGR > 10% from here, and significantly better than that if the above catalysts materialise over the next 1-2 years.

 

A note on Market Psychology

I feel like there are a number of features of this business that could be used to explain historical performance and outlook in either a positive or negative way depending on how you look at them / what type of investor you are.

These include the eccentric / unorthodox founder CEO, dominates a mature market niche (Saturation vs mkt leadership), low NPAT margins (competitive industry vs barrier to entry), distributor / picks and shovels (limited upside and downside), 100% payout ratio (capital discipline vs lack of reinvestment opportunities), exposed to the business cycle (volatility vs opportunity).

When DDR seems to be performing well these things can be viewed as contributing to past success and indicative of continued success.

But when performance has underwhelmed, these things can be seen as negatives and reasons to doubt future success.

If this is correct, DDR could make for a good long term investment at currently lower multiples as price volatility could be exaggerated by good or bad performance that are actually due to seasonal (H1 vs H2), cyclical (business cycle, PC refresh) and structural (AI, shift to software) factors – all of which look more positively than negatively positioned to me and explain why tepid recent performance is likely to give way to a better 12-24 months.

This is in line with management commentary which seems to be candid and transparent which I would expect based on their alignment and experience (LT owner operators).

Disc: Held

BullsWool
Added 3 months ago

Interesting that they have decided not tp provide third quarter results. This is a departure from their normal reporting program. I suspect recent market weakness has priced in a poor 3rd quarter and is not looking for a huge uptick in the final dividend.

Having said that I do think the previous commentary on the tailwinds that exist such as PC refresh cycles and evolving AI use cases will hold the company on good stead.

Held IRL.

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SebastianG
Added 3 months ago

I concur with much of the analysis in this thread. I have been adding to my position in real life and added a little bit here on Strawman.

It's a risky play but I do think it has the potential to have a significant payoff in the medium term.


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mikebrisy
Added 3 months ago

@Slomo - I agree with the comments of others - this is a great piece and captures many of the ideas in my own thesis. Without repeating the comments of @Solvetheriddle @Karmast and @thunderhead , I do want to say that I am always comforted when @Rick comes along with McNiven, and underpins the low end of my valuation!

First up, $DDR is not my favourite kind of distributor for reasons you've touched on. Its large market position and respectable margins in its peer group does create an incumbency risk. I do believe that, like the Autodesk case, it is becoming easier for suppliers to go direct. Online models and 4PL fulfillment capabiliites in hardware and software continue to advance, enabling owners of products and services to acquire and support customers directly at ever lower costs. So Autodesk is a flag to keep an eye on, as it is a potential systemic risk. (I prefer attackers with proven economics at low scale, who can then grow into highly fragemented markets, with favourable incremental economics. But let's not get too academic about this - an opportunity is an opportunity!)

In terms of competition, while $DDR's margins are a positive signal to encourage new entrants, they are also to some extent a moat. $DDR can use its superiour purchasing power and ability to selectively flex margins effectively to protect its market position.

My thesis has two elements - and I think I probably wouldn't have invested in $DDR without both (even though I acknowledge the views of several respected StrawPeople to the contrary.)

The Base Case

First, there is no doubt we are going through a cyclical trough as has been commented on widely. Both macro and sector-specific. Are we through that? I'm not sure. But I agree with your remark that by the time it is clear we are through it, the market will move quite quickly, and a decent portion of the upside will be gone. I think its worth taking the 6-month or 12-month timing risk on that. (Recognising a recent exchange with @Rick - I've placed half my chips on this, saving 50% for when momentum is confirmed. Learning in action!)

The normal cycle in that sector, has two elements. The broader economic cycle. Easing interest rates will flow through to a recovery in business investment. And we are also entering a likekly 4-5 year business IT replacement cycle in hardware, as well as the software retirements you spoke about.

These elements likely offer the potential for anything like 15% to 30% annual reutrns, including dividends, over the next couple of years, with a limited downside (maybe 5%-10% net of dividends), unless these is evidence of a secular decline trend (Autodesk+++).

The Upside

AI. Before you all groan and switch off, I believe that over a 2 - 5 horizon the AI phenomenon can turbocharge both the software and hardware replacement cycle.

I've been doing some lightweight research on the sector. The hyperscalers are already investing $100 billion 2023-2024 in AI infrastructure, and there are estimates this can go to $1 trillion in 2024-2027, and I yesterday listened to a GS podcast which referred to $1.5 trillion in capex (although I don't recall the timeframe). This has fundamentally changed the business models of the hyperscalers from capex-light growth to capital intensive, although in truth the change began when they started going heavy on cloud infrastructure. And of course, we all know that AI-processing is an order of magnitude higher in energy intensity, so we're hearing stories about hyperscalers investing in nuclear power plants. Talk about the polar extreme of capital light! What a transition - a whole industry flipping from capital-light to capital-heavy in 3-5 years. Amazing. Now these are not pipe dreams. It's actually happening today.

So the sector is frantically working to develop AI-chips for phone, laptops, PCs and servers. Again, its happening, The architectures are developed and continuing to be developed further, the factories are tooled up, the first models of the chips are rolling off the production lines and into products.

Yesterday, I finally joined the dots (I'm a slow learner). The hyperscalers NEED the AI-chip embedded products to help shift as much of the energy consumption from them to the customer. I have to do more research on this, but it seems that they can shift at the low end 10% and as much as 30% onto the end user. It may be more - I have to look more deeply in to this. However, it is already clear that power is going to be the big opex cost for the hyperscalers, and so reducing this is fundamental to their economics, and therefore to their returns on investment in infrastructure. Through chip design they will push as much processing on to users as they can.

Of course, its not just about power. User experience is a factor as well. Putting more parallel-processing on the end device reduces latency and accelerates image and video processing as well as natural language processing. In jurisdictions like the EU with stringent data privacy regulations, it can also help keep more user-sensitive data on the device, aiding privacy and cyber security.

So while I don't know where along the value chain, how large, and when the returns are going to arrive for the huge investment in AI (and I don't think anybody knows), I'm pretty confident that AI is going to turbocharge the next phase of end customer investments in hardware and software.

Just think about the technology we already have. Most business users don't use a fraction of the capability and processing power in their laptops and desktops. And yet, if a business mandates "Core-i7" is the company standard archiecture, everyone gets it. (I saw proof of this a couple of years ago when I was involved in a charity effort to source cheap refurbished laptops. We ended up buying a big stack of cut-price refurbished laptops from a government department - they were three years old, and at time of purchase all had the latest generation Core-i7 processors, GPUs and expanded RAM specification, even though I am sure many of them were mainly used for email and playing Solitaire!) I think we are going to see the same phenomenon with the AI-fleet.


These two elements of the thesis make $DDR a compelling proposition for me. I don't know how strongly the AI Upside tailwind is going to blow, but for me it makes the potential returns for $DDR strongly assymetric over the next 2-5 years. It's probably not a super long-term hold for me. But it look like a "picks and shovels" beneficiary of the investment everyone else is making in AI. And $DDR doesn't need to invest an incremental dime to play, it just has to keep on doing what it's already doing! How good is that.


Disc: Held in RL (5%) and SM - prepared to go significantly bigger, subject to next HY results

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Karmast
Added 3 months ago

Thanks @mikebrisy. That's really enlightening and thought provoking on the hyperscalers and their need to shift the energy consumption to the hardware / end users.

13
Solvetheriddle
Added 3 months ago

@Slomo great effort on this one. I think most of the issues are timing and cyclical, as you point out. I am a bit concerned if the market evolves away from then Vlad did say AI is a harder and longer cycle sale. We shall see, that’s my biggest risk. It’s not an outstanding business but reasonable quality, a poor man’s tech play lol

held may buy more down here

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