Forum Topics Market Temperature Taking
lankypom
Added 4 weeks ago

I got a very valuable reminder of the sheer unpredictability of the share market yesterday. An extremely high conviction long term US holding of mine, The Trade Desk, reported its Q4 results.

Revenue of $741 million fell short of the company's target (and hence analyst expectations) of $760 million. Revenue for the full year was $2.4 billion, growing nearly 26% year over year, and generating free cash flow of $630 million. The company has no debt. EPS in the quarter at $0.59 actually exceeded analyst expectations of $0.57.

The company CEO and founder Jeff Green not only took ownership of the revenue shortfall, but spent the first 10 minutes of the investor call apologizing for it - the first time in 8 years that the company hadn't delivered on its own forecast - and explaining that the miss was because “we stumbled due to a series of small execution missteps” whilst the company had been busy with its largest ever organisational restructuring to enable it to better scale to meet the large opportunity that it sees in front of it. This opportunity is getting bigger and growing faster than previously expected.

After this refreshingly frank mea culpa, the CEO went on to enumerate 15 - yes 15 - ‘big things’ that the company would be focussing on in the current financial year to capitalise on the secular tailwinds that it has identified.

Not surprisingly the company lowballed its outlook for the next quarter: “We expect revenue to be at least $575 million, reflecting 17% year-over-year growth.”

I am flabbergasted that a 2.5% shortfall in revenue against forecast for the quarter, combined with an understandably cautious forecast for the next quarter, sent the share price tumbling 33%! It is almost as if the company has been written off as ex-growth, despite all the ample narrative to the contrary in the investor call.

I can only guess that algorithmic trading is responsible for this kind of huge volatility. Since I now live off my investment returns, I have started to build up a cash buffer such that I can sustain my lifestyle for 3 years without needing to sell any shares. I have been cautiously nibbling away at selected holdings - usually the ones at all time highs - to generate cash, but I haven't been in a rush to do this, thinking we may have another year or more of irrational exuberance ahead of us, thanks to the Trump wildcard.

This latest development has been a bit of a wake up call for me. I'm going to have to finish putting my 3 year cash buffer in place soon, as a market blow up could happen at any time.

Not a prediction.


24

mikebrisy
Added 4 weeks ago

@lankypom that's a savage reaction for sure.

I know nothing about this company, but just looking it up, one thing to note is that ahead of the result, the SP was c. +15% ahead of consensus. When that happens, even a minor shortfall to forecast can be punished savagely, as you've found.

We've quite a few candidates like that on the ASX, and for companies on my watch list those kinds of over-reactions get me salivating, as they present some of the best buying opportunities.

But it sure does hurt when it happends.

I'm also now in the phase where I live 95% off my investment returns; I always to try to keep a 2 year buffer of cash / term deposits, so that I'm never a distressed seller.

16

Solvetheriddle
Added 4 weeks ago

@lankypom TTD is a bit too racy for my nerves but having spent much of the last couple of years analysing the o/s markets, mainly the US, there are some conclusions i have come to. firstly, much like here, but maybe more so, the market is run by momentum, whether that's passive (probably a part), momentum funds in all their guises (the most dominant form of investing as far as i can tell-algos, quant funds, day traders, second guessers etc) and closest momentum guys, those who sprout fundamental analysis but at the end of the day follow Mo and back solve for value (yes we have them here as well lol). the upshot of all this is that most are happy to buy a stock with no hairs and strong price action at outrageous (IMO) prices rather than something with a couple of hairs that you can put a reasonable fundamental value case forth. the trouble with the former is its all hunky dory until a hair appears and then all hell can break loose as the Mo investors en masse try and front-run each other out of there. its becomes a mess. is this what investing has come to? my Intl strategy, which i may write up in full, is in summary picking up the pieces after all hell has broken loose, but keeping to quality, leaders and something i have some understanding of. (maybe get half a dozen opportunities a year). I am not saying that TTD was overvalued, i haven't looked closely at it. there are a couple of likely lads in the Oz market as well driven by Mo IMO.

The discipline for me is not overpaying, keeping to the strongest, doing the work and being patient. i can't afford to lose a lot of permanent capital, if i buy at some kind of valuation support, in aggregate i should be ok.

I rely on investment returns for the majority of my income, i keep about 1.5 years of spending in cash as a buffer, not included in my portfolio.

that's my view could be wrong, ok back to the Adyen call......

18

RhinoInvestor
Added 4 weeks ago

I’m considering a top up on this one. I originally bought a small holding in early 2023 and added to it through 2023 even after the price had climbed by 50%. I’m up about 100% even after the pullback. The good news is that the LEAP covered call that i normally put on to generate some holding income off these more volatile stocks has just about gone to zero so I can roll that one to make a few more $. The March 2026 $110 call is paying about $8.75 so that’s around 10% holding income and 37% cap gain if it bounces back over the next 12 months.

I agree with the observation that the US market does seem to have a lot more volatility than ASX200 but I think its the nature of the tech companies with high multiples leaving very little tolerance for missed expectations.


DISC - held IRL

10
Stannis
Added a month ago

Following “The Most Important Thing”, I am currently going through “Mastering The Market Cycle”, by Howard Marks. I had originally wrote a  bit of a rambling post on whether or not we’re in a more long-term geopolitical shift - but who are we plebeians to even consider contemplating such? Instead, I would like to bring my thoughts back to something that is potentially beneficial …taking the temperature of the market.

Although I have, for many years, incoherently stressed over the future economic outlook, now, I actually have a term for it - perhaps if I tell my family I am “concerned over my recent temperature taking of the market”, I will sound more “doctor-y” and they might even entertain my crapola?

Anyway, my mind often wanders to the larger concepts - e.g. is the United States a declining empire? However, these thoughts are relatively worthless, in the event that it takes another few centuries to play out.

So, it seems more beneficial to discuss the relative future, and, if any are willing, please feel free to take the temperature of the market.

Below, I have pasted an internet table containing the factors for consideration. I have also typed my quick (probably dumb) temperature taking of the market below the table. Ultimately, I post this as I feel I am relatively young and inexperienced, and would very much like to understand where I am in the “market cycle”. There is really no way to do this without speaking to, respectfully, those who have more prolonged and extended experience than I.

I encourage anyone to rip my understanding apart and fill in my absent knowledge. Cheers!

a827d891c0230de7c8cde5df02e12d41cce5ac.png

(the image appears for me, however, if it does not, please click the following to see article with the table:- https://medium.com/@rhughesjones/howard-marks-on-second-level-thinking-the-role-of-luck-taking-the-markets-temperature-b1ea7f0b2c7b)

Temperature Taking:

  • Outlook - rather mixed but still positive and optimistic I’d say.
  • Lenders - eager (big question mark, as I am honestly not sure).
  • Capital markets - loose, I think.
  • Capital - seems plentiful - does not appear to be very scare at all.
  • Terms - not sure, depends on the borrower, no?
  • Interest rates - the real uncertainty for me. Everyone is currently frothing at the mouth for a rate cut yet, historically, they seem pretty average to me. The generally high debt levels seem to justify this, I suppose.
  • Spreads - not sure.
  • Investors - appear optimistic and eager to buy, yet there seems to be a sense of caution (but maybe that’s just me).
  • Asset owners - certainly still happy to hold, at least in comparison to cash.
  • Sellers - few.
  • Markets - definitely crowded, in my opinion.
  • Funds - not exactly sure.
  • Recent performance - very strong/all time highs.
  • Asset prices - high.
  • Prospective returns - low.
  • Risks - high.

16