Forum Topics JIN JIN #Acquisition and Value?

Pinned straw:

Last edited 9 months ago

I was at an Investor event this week where Founder CEO Mike Verveka presented an overview of the business and answered Investor questions. As usual he was humble and transparent. There were a few takeaways that have added to my conviction and with a 5 year view, I believe Jumbo is now one of my least risky and most reliable holdings.

  1. Mike explained the UK and Canada businesses in Stride, Starvale and Gatherwell are performing OK but because they help other lotteries, rather than running them themselves, the growth is likely to be single rather than double digit going forward.
  2. He is off to the U.S. next week for follow up work on a possible acquisition (he also mentioned this at the AGM in Oct). And he is looking for a B2C business where Jumbo is more in control of the player experience and marketing, which they are really good at. In turn we should be expecting double digit EPS growth from this, if he can do a deal that is a fair price.
  3. The balance sheet is very strong and they could survive the Armageddon outcome of losing the TLC contract in 2030 to sell Powerball tickets etc. While he says this is an incredibly low probability and they would be a much smaller company if it happened, they would still survive and be profitable. Marketing and people are their two biggest costs and these can be scaled up or down fairly quickly.
  4. The SaaS business continues to do well, with recent additions including RSPCA.
  5. He is very comfortable with the succession planning work thats been done. While he has no plans to go anywhere, he believes Jumbo will be a much bigger business in 10 years time and there are 4 Managers under him that are all capable and a couple that have been with him for 20 years.
  6. The buybacks at the current price, are "a very easy capital allocation decision".


I will be adding to my holding IRL and on SM given these developments...

Solvetheriddle
Added 9 months ago

@Karmast thanks for the update. i recently added this one but there certainly are issues, most are reasonably well known so the extent of the SP decline is a surprise. The issues as i see them are the o/s acquisitions proving lacklustre, share gains against TLC being, well, minimal, digital gains overall ok, there was a disturbing uptick in marketing costs that the company dismissed as transitory in the last result but on the surface, it looks like share gains coming at a much higher cost. the Powerball cycle is well known. one of my biases is an "unendowment" bias where the spiders grow in size after i have a position and i get a bit of that here lol. The buyback is a good allocation of capital at these levels, IMO but the company needs a double-digit driver of growth as well. I also note the QVG guys have initiated a position in this one but pointed to the uptick in marketing costs as staying their hand in adding to the position for what thats worth.

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Karmast
Added 9 months ago

@Solvetheriddle Yes all valid questions. Mike has shared for sometime now that the jackpots are cyclical and if you have a great half / year, then the next half / year is often slower. Reversion to the mean at work! So, they are in a down year at present and hence are likely doing more marketing. That said they continue to take share from newsagents and that's a multi year / decade process most likely.

All of that said the main lotteries part of the business in Australia is maturing. My guess it grows single digit from here but is pretty reliable. And the current Internationals are also going to grow single digit most likely.

So yes, they need to add on a new double digit growth driver and I suspect that's what's happening with the U.S. exploration. Depending on the price paid this could be risky or it could be very rewarding.

My current valuation of $18 is based on them delivering around 10% p.a. growth at a PE of 25 for the next 5 years, so there is some work to be done but it's not overly aggressive in my estimation.


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SudMav
Added 9 months ago

As a holder here and irl, it’s looking more like margins are also reverting back to the mean for JIN. I agree that growth is going to be a bit more subdued, and I’m hoping that the change in marketing approach builds the customer base

From my perspective there a few main risks coming over the few years which will impact my thesis:

1 - TLC does not win the tender for Victorian lotto in 2028 resulting in significant reduction in revenue and potential loss of Tasmanian revenue (it’s linked to qld and vic).

2 - the increasing premium on lottery tickets applied when purchasing on Jin compared to the Lott. You get a free entry into some draws for that premium (weekly winners), however with the Lott improving its user experience, customers may move across to the cheaper platform when the Powerball and Saturday lotto price increases come along.

3 - TLC decide to not continue the reseller agreement partnership with JIN. Mike has been consistent that this is a mutually agreeable solution, however with the TLC CEO retiring at the end of the year, he will have some heavy lobbying to do with the new appointee to prove their value

Hoping that these risks are quite low, however I’m monitoring updates to see how user numbers are progressing.


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Solvetheriddle
Added 9 months ago

I think point two is pertinent. TLC has improved a lot. I use it; it's seamless, unlike a few years ago. So share gains here will be harder or none at all. the big contract risks are there and have been fora long while, significant outcome smallish possibilities.

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wtsimis
Added 9 months ago

Thanks @Karmast interesting information and agree on the balance sheet strength.

There is much value at current levels and assuming a 55c FF dividend is maintained it is a nice cash return especially considering the 40% plus pull back in SP from a year ago.

Market is clearly worried on where the growth is any will come from and the notion that they do not experience a downturn in the economy is not bearing fruit.

Not held but on the watchlist

Cheers

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Mujo
Added 9 months ago

Great insights thanks @Karmast for sharing.

Interested to see where they go with acquisitions given they might be a little gun shy after the recent issues.

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