Forum Topics CU6 CU6 Risks

Pinned straw:

Last edited 8 months ago

Interesting watching the chatter vaporise around Clarity.

The speccy biotech's share price has plummeted from almost $9 to $2.13 in months as the hype has settled.

Shouldn't the high conviction types be going in hard ?

Where's all the love gone ?

"It's a deal! It's a steal, It's the sale of the century! It's chicken soup!" (quote from Lock, Stock, &..)

Anyways, I'm genuinely sorry fo the peeps that succumbed to the bbq/lunch hype and bought at the peak.

A few years ago that was me, and it was one of the best investing lessons I've ever had.

I'm extemely grateful it happened at the beginning of my investing journey and not now.

Obviously it's a long road, and the company may still commercialise and start selling its miracle cure.

I hope so, but until it de-risks and starts selling the stuff, it's still on the watch list for me.

Alternatively, we could see cap raises and this drawn out likely over years.

Would have made more of a return probably just buying a broad based etf at the beginning of the story.


mikebrisy
Added 8 months ago

@topowl I think this is a very good question, and as a holder of an initial small RL position in $CU6, I'll give my view.

By way of background, I began to take in interest in $CU6 shortly after taking an initial position in $TLX earlier last year, and learning more about radiopharmaceuticals and some of the unique features of the $CU6 platform. The $CU6 Strawman meeting came at a helpful time, although immediately after the meeting, based on what I knew at the time, I felt that $CU6 was too speculative for me. However, in the intervening period from October to January, I deepened my knowledge of the Radiopharmaceutical sector in general, on $TLX and $CU6 another products. And as the $CU6 price came off early this year, I took a small position around $3 and $4.

(Note although my SM portfolio says I have 1.9% in $CU6 and 2.1% in $TLX, my RL position is very different, at 3.7% $TLX and 0.5% $CU6. Important to recognise that I take less care with my SM portfolio weightings than in RL, and I tend to show bigger SM holdings of higher risk businesses, as a general rule because I have certain large holdings in RL that I don't hold in Strawman, but which I always list on my Profile!)

Having been involved in biotech and pharma for many years, it is clear that SP's are very news-flow and milestone-driven. It really can be a bad idea to buy stocks in pre-revenue companies on the back of good news and as part of SP momentum, simply because these events can create a lot of forth that blows off when the news flow dies down. (I'll stop opining on price mechanics, because there are plenty on this forum who are much better qualified to comment on technical price action and how to interpret it.)

I invest on fundamentals (with an eye to momentum, to help consider timing). So, where do we stand on the fundamentals of $CU6?

Revenue and Approved Products = 0. No Change.

Here's the development portfolio (picture below), as presented in the November AGM. No change.

And importantly, we still do expect very significant newsflow during the course of 2025.

But that newsflow could be negative, trial milestone might fail, products might be abandoned, and new capital required to keep the show going. You have to have your eyes open when investing in pre-revenue biotech, no matter how much early successes have been lauded!

c9400351e69254fc98b51613c81e89e2074b5c.png

So what information have we had since the AGM, when the SP was around $7?

Here's a summary.

$CU6 Developments Since the 2024 AGM

Regulatory Milestones:

  • FDA Fast Track Designation: In February 2025, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration granted Fast Track Designation for Clarity's ^67Cu-SAR-bisPSMA, targeting metastatic castration-resistant prostate cancer (mCRPC). This designation facilitates expedited development and review processes, underscoring the potential of Clarity's therapeutic agent. ​

Clinical Trial Progress:

  • SECuRE Trial Update: The SECuRE trial, assessing ^67Cu-SAR-bisPSMA in mCRPC patients, reported that 92% of pre-chemotherapy participants experienced a reduction in prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels exceeding 35%. This promising outcome led to the initiation of the Cohort Expansion Phase at an 8 GBq dose level. ​


Pipeline Expansion:

  • Breast Cancer Focus: Clarity expanded its pipeline to include ^64/^67Cu-SAR-trastuzumab, targeting HER2-positive breast cancer. Pre-clinical studies demonstrated significant tumor reduction and improved survival rates in models treated with ^67Cu-SAR-trastuzumab compared to standard trastuzumab therapy. ​


Strategic Partnerships:

  • Copper-64 Supply Agreement: In March 2025, Clarity secured a supply agreement with The University of Queensland for copper-64 isotopes. This collaboration ensures a consistent supply for clinical trials, particularly for ^64Cu-SAR-bisPSMA, enhancing Clarity's theranostic programs.


My Assessment

I think the adverse SP movement in recent months is down to three factors:

  1. The SECURE update, while from my reading a reasonably positive update, perhaps didn't hold the blow away results some were expecting
  2. As we move into Q2, froth blows off in the absence of major newsflow. That's a very, very common pattern.
  3. The market more generally has turned against high risk stocks, in the current correction


Do I think $CU6 was overvalued at $7? Maybe, maybe not. Do I think it is undervalued today? Maybe, maybe not. The point is, the risk around $CU6 is very high depending of a large number of highly uncertain outcomes. Across the development portfolio I consider there is promising evidence that one or more of its products will be successful in delivering a commercial diagnostic product, with a lower likelihood of success in achieving a therapeutic drug.

Importantly, the news flow since the AGM has not been so positive so far as to cause me to increase my very small holding. The SECURE trial update was fairly neutral to mildly positive in my assessment on the risk-reward profile of that trial, and the other announcements do not materially change my view on value.

All that said, I am considering adding some more $CU6 at the current prices, in the context of my overall pharma/biotech portfolio. Basically, because of progress elsewhere in the portfolio, I am open to adding some more development risk (perhaps another 0.5% in RL) and $CU6 is looking quite attractive to me at the moment to do that.

Disc: Held in RL and SM

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edgescape
Added 8 months ago

@mikebrisy Thanks for the objective view on Clairty

Having sold most of my position with only a free carry, I don't hold much but have been interested in adding back at these prices. There was a capital raise around these prices too.

Despite what is said about not having generated revenue, it is obvious that the team at Clarity have invested quite a bit of time and money here so there is still some "book" value at these levels. But I may wait a bit more and see if this stays or leaves the top 200.

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edgescape
Added 8 months ago

@topowl

I'm not sure why you have this obsession to pick on Clarity - no offence taken.

But there are much much worse companies on the ASX than this

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topowl
Added 8 months ago

@edgescape

firstly, happy hump day !

what a day to be alive. love it.

secondly,

I don’t know what to say dude.

this isn’t $ot $opper..

if anyone wants an echo chamber they should head there.

this is literally called strawman. Why are we here if not for contrasting opinions.

nothing personal, just presenting my take that it’s a speculative biotech and uninvestable at this point in time.

absolutely feel free to disagree.

i hope it succeeds, the world will be a better place for it.

but yes, I’m def fascinated with the psychology of biotech speccy.

to me it’s like those cases that get thrown out of court in movies because all the evidence is circumstantial.

all little data points of speculation, dr google, thought bubbles, and hearsay.

I’m amazed how people seem to get attracted to the complexity of it all and genuinely think they actually know what’s going on with them.

no extra points for difficulty.

but if that’s you, knock yourself out, fill your boots. you may even get extremely wealthy doing so. I genuinely hope you do.

imo, so much of it is sales orientated and the truth sits behind the closed doors of rooms only certain old boy networks get access too. oh and don’t worry, they’ll be the first out the door before anyone else gets a chance at the first whiff of trouble.

when it starts selling units, I’ll give it a red hot look no doubt.





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edgescape
Added 8 months ago

@topowl

Apart from saying the stock is very overvalued, the main point I was trying to make is your posts never really offer anything insightful.

Although I also saw that the price overran itself and sold most of my holding, I've pointed a few stocks worse than Clarity with some that were even doing stuff that that had real negative real returns or have potential red flags and provided evidence for that. One was a Lithium nearology play in Andover and the other one had a Green Steel project which turned out it had a negative NPV (and incidentally also ran up past $8 before falling back below 50c even though it is still posting revenue at a loss)

But as this is a Clarity thread, I won't mention them here, but you can see my history to check.


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mikebrisy
Added 8 months ago

Yes. However, the riskiest pre-revenue biotechs are where there is only one lead product. So you really can be playing a binary roll of the dice.

$CU6 is somewhat different, as there is a platform with quite a bit of very positive data for those interested enough to read the published work. The safety and tolerability of the platform also looks reasonable, at the dosage levels being applied so far.

But what I really like about radiopharamceuticals is that for each product and indication you usually get two shots: first, is the diagnostic piece. And from my reading, this reads much more relaibly from Phase 2 into Phase 3. That can deliver a commercial outcome that can payback the investment, as we are seeing with $TLX. In your words you then essentially have a "free carry" through the tougher therapeutic product applicatoin, which has a lower chance of success.

Now we add to that a platform, with mulitple products using the same underlying technology, each having diagnostic and therapuetic instances, and you are now getting multiple shots at the roulette wheel. And furthermore now $CU6 are adding mutliple platforms, so you've got different tables to play at. (Although, they'll almost certainty have to go back to the cashier for more chips, if the other "plays" haven't hit winners, so I'm not crediting those with any value today.)

So, it is risky and - for many - speculative. But one investor's speculation is another's calculated risk-reward investment. Of course it is the speculative hot-money that drives the froth, so we have to be careful in timing the placing of our bets.

I'm very happy to have 10-15% of my ASX portfolio with this kind of risk exposure, which I currently have with $CU6, $BOT (now commercial), $TLX (now commercial) and $NEU (now commercial). In fact, if the last three all move solidly into strong commercial growth territory, I'll be looking to add 3 or 4 late clinical development opportunities into the portfolio.

In my biotech investing, I seek out risk profiles that are better than average, and there are clear reasons why the 4 companies listed above fit that category (which I have explained in other straws). Because of that, I can hold fewer companies in that part of my portfolio that is otherwise wise. If I was soley focused on early stage (Phase 1 / Phase 2), I'd probably have to hold 15-20 well-researched companies to have a portfolio with a reasonable risk profile. Persoanlly, I don't have the personal capacity to research that many for what is only 10-15% of my overall portfolioand where each holding takes a lot of research effort. So, picking firms with a "special" risk profile also suits my wider portfolio needs and constraints.

To each their own!

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topowl
Added 8 months ago

@edgescape

honestly…..I can’t think of anything more relevant, meaningful, or insightful to say regarding Clarity.

it’s a highly risky speculation not investment.

I would go as far as saying that’s not just imo, that’s an immutable truth, like the sky is blue and water is wet.

sometimes it’s the simple truth that bears repeating and repeating.

like the cancer warning on a pack of cigarettes.

i genuinely think it’s a point that needs to be put out there occasionally to help strawman from turning into a &ot $opper ramp-fest.

now I’m honesty not saying that’s what’s happening with your comments, but sometimes if no one says the simple bear case now and then, things can get a little unintentionally rampy.

especially if it’s reams of indecipherable factoids getting dropped on a particular subject with no opposing thoughts…

anyway dude, it’s all good.

just keep it on topic and not personal.

if you think one single thing I’ve said is wrong, feel free to discuss.





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edgescape
Added 8 months ago

@topowl When I talk about insight, I think for any bear case there should be more detail.

Any stock that is valued purely on speculation and not yet earning revenue will be without risk. So the only way to minimise risk is to assess everything on the balance of probabilties of Event A happening vs not happening.

Biotechs and mining explorers are the best candidates. But it is also important to put why you see the bear case

Is it increased timelines for trials? Trials not meeting recruitment targets? Statistical results that don't make sense or too early to call?

Or for exploration, is the target not big or consistent enough, is the results trending not where they are supposed to?

Or for ones selling advanced technology, who are the potential customers, what is the potential return for them if they use the tech etc etc...

There are lots of questions to ask and probabilities to take account of when detailing a bear case.

I believe in all my posts I pointed out Clarity was still very early stage just by looking at the number of participants in the trial.

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topowl
Added 8 months ago

@edgescape

early stage, mid stage, late stage trials…

it doesn’t matter.

the scientific and commercial risks are endless.

until it actually starts selling product it’s a highly speculative cancer cure biotech.

not in a glib way, in a real way.

sales are the only real truth teller.

clarity isn’t even at the starting line yet.

anyone who wants to dabble in that space should go for it,

it’s a free world.

absolutely one zero one zero critique every little bit of the science, the commercial aspects, whatever you like.

but let’s call a spade a spade, and don’t get offended when someone calls it speculative.

because that’s exactly what it is….highly speculative.

regardless of where it is in the trial.

imo taking a position in a biotech cancer-cure speccy pre-sales and debating the nuance of its science is like gambling with dice and debating which way the dice will roll and why(which no one can)…..when really, the sensible thing would be to ask yourself…why am I gambling with dice at all?

no amount of research can get anyone over that line….unless of course you’re the chosen one….

you know the one that knows better and can just plain and simply work harder and see what every big pharma and large insto with a budget and supercomputer is missing.

….or unless you’re in that room I mentioned earlier with the closed doors…ahem

anywho…..that’s a bold position to take but absolutely, fill your boots.

thank for engaging.

fun discourse on a rainy day, I’ll have to do the washing tomorrow.


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Bear77
Added 8 months ago

Those are fair points @topowl and I tend to agree which is why I steer clear of pre-sales biotechs myself. However, in my experience, even when a company has sales, as an investor I can still be blind-sided by something out of left field that I did not see coming. Acrux (ACR) is a good example of that, when they were selling their Axiron roll-on (transdermal - applied in the armpit) testosterone therapy through Eli Lily who had purchased the global license for Axiron distribution from Acrux in exchange for some up front cash, ongoing royalty payments on sales and some very juicy milestone payments as pre-determined revenue (sales) milestones were met. Those milestone payments were set to increase in dollar value as the global sales increased.

I bought into ACR in late 2013 because Roger Montgomery was pumping the company and the opportunity - I was following his blog at the time. Roger was calling out the sales milestone payments that Acrux would receive beginning in early 2014, and that Acrux had indicated they intended to pass a good percentage of that money through to their shareholders in special dividends.

At that point Acrux had already received two milestone payments from Eli Lilly, an upfront payment of US$50 million in March/April 2010 and a milestone payment of US$87 million when Acrux received FDA Approval for Axiron in November 2010. Sales were increasing strongly month on month. What could go wrong?

In early 2014, not long after I bought Acrux shares, Acrux received their first sales milestone payment from Eli Lilly of US$25 million for exceeding US$100 million in worldwide sales in 2013. Acrux immediately declared a special dividend of 12¢ a share, unfranked, and their share price rose a bit, but they had already come down from a high near $4.50/share in mid-2012 to be trading at around $2/share at the time they announced that special div.

While Acrux received more than $145 million in royalty revenue in total from Eli Lilly for Axiron, that US$25m sales milestone payment was the only sales milestone payment they ever received because shortly after they received it the FDA in the US decided to limit the use of testosterone drugs and therapies to males with Hypogonadism, also known as gonadal deficiency, a condition where the gonads (testes in men, ovaries in women) produce insufficient sex hormones, leading to various symptoms and potential health issues.

That severely limited the potential addressable market for Axiron, which Acrux and Lilly had thought was all men with "Low T" (low testosterone), which was a huge potential market because men's bodies usually start producing less testosterone from around the age of 45 onwards, and the older they get the less testosterone they will have in their systems. I have also read that testosterone levels peak in the late 20s for men, however it's as we approach 50 that the testosterone drop-off is more noticeable.

The FDA's decision was based on a small number of studies which suggested that men receiving testosterone replacement therapy (such as Axiron) had an increased risk of heart attacks and strokes and the FDA decided that this potential risk was too big to justify the use of testosterone drugs like Axiron EXCEPT when otherwise healthy younger men had been medically diagnosed with hypogonadism. In those situations they felt the benefits outweighed the risks.

Studies suggest that testosterone deficiency may be present in up to 20% of adolescent and young adult males (ages 15 to 39), however very few of that 20% receive a medical diagnosis of hypogonadism, so, long story short, to overturn that FDA decision would have required very large and VERY expensive double-blind trials that would need to run for decades - until all of the study participants actually died - to determine if there was truly a statistically significant decrease in life expectancy due to heart attacks and strokes in men taking testosterone drugs and therapies. Nobody was going to fund that trial and wait that long for a return on their investment, so Eli Lilly immediately became far less interested in spending money marketing Axiron, when they were raking in millions in profits from diabetes medications like Humalog (insulin lispro) and Trulicity (dulaglutide), along with clinical depression drugs Prozac (fluoxetine) and Cymbalta (duloxetine) plus antipsychotic medication Zyprexa (olanzapine). [those drugs being their best selling ones at that time]

Eli Lilly officially discontinued Axiron distribution (worldwide) in September 2017 after requesting the withdrawal of Axiron's approval from the FDA, which became effective on July 23, 2018. I didn't hang around in Acrux during that period - I got out shortly after the FDA restriction-of-use decision in 2014. Some people might claim that the FDA restricting the use cases for Axiron AFTER approving the drug and AFTER sales had commenced and were growing strongly, was a foreseeable event, but I certainly didn't see it coming.

Acrux closed today at $0.023 (2.3 cents/share). They still have their transdermal application patents, but they are struggling to successfully commercialise that tech and grow sales significantly. I do not follow them now. They had other drugs in various stages of development when they were selling Axiron, but since the demise of Axiron, my understanding is that Acrux (ACR) hasn't been able to make decent money on any of those drugs or applications, even their veterinary range which has a much lower bar to clear to get to market has struggled.

So, I rarely even buy into drug companies that already have sales now; it's just not within my sphere of competency (a.k.a. wheelhouse) - but pre-sales is definitely off the table for me.

In past years, I also dabbled in Paradigm Biopharmaceuticals Ltd (ASX:PAR), who were and still are attempting to repurpose the existing drug pentosan polysulfate sodium (PPS) for the treatment of osteoarthritis (OA), with a focus on knee OA - currently in Phase 3 trials I believe. Again, they were supposed to be a slam-dunk money maker 5 years ago, because PPS was already being sold throughout Europe and elsewhere as a well tolerated drug to relieve the symptoms (eg, pain, discomfort) of interstitial cystitis (inflammation of the bladder) and all of the trials thus far had shown PPS was also well tolerated and effective in reducing the pain and other symptoms of OA, but 5 years on, despite all the hype and attempted deal making, PAR still has PPS in trials for OA, so still haven't achieved approval or sales. PAR was over $4/share at the beginning of 2020 and they closed today at 33 cents.

These sorts of companies could be considered investments for those people with a deep understanding of the drugs involved, what they are seeking to address, the regulatory environment in each geographical jurisdiction, big pharma, and whatever else they need to know, but for me it is nothing more than speculation, not investing, because I know so little about all of those things and it has been akin to rolling dice for me, and generally the odds haven't favoured me. So I play elsewhere - where I believe the odds are far more in my favour.


Background Reading on Acrux/Axiron debacle:


Disc: ACR Held 2013-2014, not since 2014. PAR held on and off over the years, but not for the past couple of years. Steering well clear now.

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edgescape
Added 8 months ago

Thanks @Bear77

This is the sort of bear thesis analysis I am after and the point I was making in my previous posts. And I'm sure everyone is too.

I was another former PAR shareholder. I got sick of the constant pushback on timelines and first revenue expectations and ran once I saw the downtrend set in around $3. Mind you it did bounce around that $2-$4 range before the price collapsed and I was vindicated in the decision.

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