Forum Topics CSL CSL Results FY25

Pinned straw:

Added 4 months ago

Gosh, CSL is taking a hammering with shares are down around 10% (wiping about $13b from its market value) despite reporting a 14% lift in profit, right at the top of guidance. Management also expects up to 10% underlying profit growth in the year ahead.

So what gives? The restructure and Seqirus demerger come with one-off costs of up to $1b, with a cash hit of about $600m. The market seems more focused on those near-term costs and the risks of execution rather than the longer-term benefits. That's just a guess though.

I do not think it is a stretch to say CSL is one of the best companies on the ASX, yet its shares have gone nowhere since 2019. That is despite revenue nearly doubling, operating profit more than doubling, and margins improving over that time.

The lesson is that you can still do poorly in a great company that is growing strongly if you pay too much. Back in late 2019 CSL was on a PE of about 47 times. Sure, profits have since grown, but that's been offset by the multiple contraction.

Stumpy
Added 4 months ago

Reading between the lines, I see this as a ‘back to basics’ by focusing on their core businesses, which have long-term tailwinds and growing at CAGR of 7.2% for IVIG and 7.6% for iron therapies. As others have posted, it all comes down to what you pay for that growth rate, but it is starting to look attractive again after a long period of overvaluation based on acquisitions and a touch of market hype.

Increasing awareness and diagnosis of these conditions help the long-term case for CSL, especially with the network and competitive advantages they possess. I see tariffs as short-term noise which in themselves, can’t simply kill off demand for the market-leading life-saving therapies that CSL supply. For me, it’s a question of how difficult it is for an American company to develop the capability and network that CSL possess (pretty bloody difficult).

Personal anecdote warning: From working in a healthcare setting, I believe iron therapies/Ferinject are a sleeper opportunity worldwide that will prove to be a winner for CSL long-term, provided they don’t lose too much market share to competitors such as Monofer. Just in the last few years, I have seen a large increase in the number of patients being treated with Ferinject, both in hospital and even in GP clinics. It is clear that iron infusions are the most effective solution of choice when it comes to treating iron deficiency anaemia, which is chronically undiagnosed and undertreated both in developed and emerging markets.

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/intravenous-immunoglobulin-market

https://www.grandviewresearch.com/industry-analysis/iron-deficiency-anemia-therapy-market-report

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Solvetheriddle
Added 4 months ago

My 2c on CSL result. ok, it's a while since my "Losing My Religion" piece on these esteemed pages re CSL. What has changed? is CSL worth the effort?

the result was 1% below my revenue and NPATA numbers, so no big shacks for me there, but a lot is going on with this one.

  1. Demerging Seqirus, can't disagree since some of us were arguing for this a while back. CSL made an opportunistic acquisition when the biz was a mess under Novartis. CSL then fixed it up (after a lot of effort), now it is, imo, a high-return biz but with little growth, so divest/demerge makes sense.
  2. I have been a bit neutral/neg on Vifor; this result was ok for them, but I'm still not convinced of the strategy, and don't like the Vifor CEO commentary-dismissive and arrogant imo. too soon to divest it. Probably a misallocation of capital, CSL now proposes a multi-year buyback program, so marginally better.
  3. CSL withdrew timing on the CPL improvements they have been flagging to get back to preC19 margins for Behring. Didn't withdraw the end result, but non-committal on timeline. these savings were a big driver of profit, very big, so withdrawing the timeline, the market will hate. and probably understandable. so that it is poor.
  4. There are small changes in disclosure that usually mean issues in various products, ie losing share, and i think we see that, but not life-threatening. Guidance was not great, again, not poor, just disappointing, puts me right at the top end for 2026.
  5. The really interesting thing is the change in R&D. my view is that CSL went through a real purple patch about 10 years ago with a string of outstanding products. there was always a risk that they were batting above average and that has proven the case. now, CSL is addressing the issue. big changes to the R&D process, save costs and reinvest to generate better returns. align R&D with product development and commercialisation. Read into this CSL thinks R&D has been poorly directed and are attempting to address this issue. now the big question is, will this improve results or is the former glory gone, and it was always just a lucky streak? That is the big question for me. it will take a while to get answers (years).
  6. All this ties into the pricing; long gone are the days CSL could do no wrong (remember CSL was going to cure C19....lol). what should a big pharma trade on? the comps can be priced very poorly mid-teens PE for big pharma is not uncommon, but i think CSL is a better business because it is less exposed to EOL patents to the same extent. so 20-22X is a good entry IMO. Is it worth the effort, im undecided.


Glory days they pass you by, glory days in the wink of a young competitor's eye (sorry Bruce)

held a small position


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Finally turning up, which is a good start.

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mikebrisy
Added 4 months ago

@Solvetheriddle great summary (although I've not focused on $CSL today.) Good to see them acting on your call re: Sequirus!

And Vifor ... I'm not a believer, although I did see the logic at the time of the acquisition, but the delivery since has been poor. But still early for this industry.

The paring back on R&D is at once both interesting and concerning. It has been clear for a few years, as you say, that the R&D pipeline has not been productive. But then again when you look at other big pharma cases you see periods of ebbs and flows that run for 5-10 years at a time. So pulling back to not waste money, and then to rebuild over time, has been proven elsewhere to make sense.

De-committing from a timeframe on CPL improvements is NOT good. I wondered when the 3-horizons of CPL margin improvement were rolled out how much of it was tangible vs. theoretical. I guess what we're seeing is that only horizon 1 was tangible, and the other horizons were a bit notional. Operational improvement is a deep capability. Two companies that have it and have proven it are $RMD and $FPH. $CSL claimed to be able to do it, but in my experience, most companies that talk about operational excellence fall short in the delivery ... I should know, as I've worked for a few!

There is a point at which this business represents value (obviously), but with question marks on R&D productivity and operational excellence falling short, basic cost cutting doesn't get me there.

I'm not sure what my entry point is, but I think it is south of $220.

Disc: Not held for some time now.

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lowway
Added 4 months ago

That's a cracking summary IMHO @Solvetheriddle and one that resonates with me and my IRL investment with $CSL (small change of about 0.3%). I purchased my small parcel as a watch and see back in Feb 2022 when the market judged them badly and price dumped to below my buy price of $250 and have watched and waited ever since with the same "not really sure" conviction.

I supposed that tells me I should not be involved if I'm not fully committed, but I do love a good news Aussie story (Like my $COH holding) and have justified for 3 years as it's only small change. As @Strawman would say, don't forget about the opportunity cost!! I'll stick it out for a little longer, but I doubt an increase in volume is likely unless the market really does a job on them.


DISC held IRL, not in SM

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Bear77
Added 4 months ago

Might not be a factor @Strawman but the latest talk is Trump is about to announce new sweeping additional tariffs on healthcare products including pharmaceuticals - which would affect CSL blood plasma and other blood products, vaccines, etc., that are not made in the USA, and also additional tariffs on computer chips / semiconductors. It's all apparently to encourage US companies to onshore manufacturing and other global companies to manufacture in the USA as well, but those sort of shifts take decades rather than months and the tariffs are already hurting the US and hitting the GOP's core demographic / supporters, so perhaps nothing comes of it, perhaps it does. Concerns around additional tariffs affecting CSL imports into the US could be weighing on sentiment.

The whole tariff fiasco is a real mess, and yet I went through ARB's letter to shareholders and presentation today and they didn't mention tariff concerns at all, despite their continued roll-out across a number of the southern states of the USA. They decided to pay an additional 50 cent special dividend to shareholders with an ex-date in just three days (22nd August) in addition to their normal FY-end div of 35 cps which goes ex-div on 2nd Sept. Revenue up +5.3%. PBT down -4.6%. NPAT down -5%. Outlook Good. Plan to return to growth in China. US roll-out on track. New Toyota Prado products to be announced this FY. Expanding into the UAE with substantial investment in infrastructure in Dubai. New Zealand growth going very well. Overall OEM sales slightly up on a bumper FY24. Despite a decline in sales of the key vehicles that ARB provide after market gear for, they are still growing sales and finding new avenues of growth globally. And back to paying the occasional special dividend to shareholders along with it. ARB's SP up +6% last time I looked. One to hold for the long term I reckon after I accumulated a large position in my SMSF at prices around $30 to $32/share in April and May this year after the tariff over-reaction sell-down.

Not sure if CSL is a similar opportunity, but I'm not interested in CSL any more - I'm leaving pharma alone, and health care in general.

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thunderhead
Added 4 months ago

There is a LOT to digest in this result apart from just the financial performance itself, but my gut feel is the market is over-reacting to developments that should be accretive to earnings, atleast looking out a couple of years (even if it is to the detriment longer term, especially with the withdrawal of more R&D spend).

I suspect it will take weeks to form a proper view.

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lowway
Added 4 months ago

Probably hijacking a good forum post on $CSL here to talk quickly about $ARB but totally agree with your thoughts on $ARB @Bear77 and the market also likes the report released today. The key to the purchasing for me around the same time as yourself @Bear77was the fear of damage from Trump tariffs had driven the SP below my buy point and they have been a long term, consistent performer, great management with skin-in-the-game and a market that just is willing to pay for quality (almost at any price to get that ARB sticker attached).

Maybe the comparison to $CSL makes it a fair place to offer my thread, so another good-great Aussie company punching above its weight overseas!! Although I still see substantial upside in $ARB if they get the huge US market play right, whereas $CSL.....

DISC held IRL and SM portfolios

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OxyBBear
Added 4 months ago

All about expectations. Behring missed consensus, lower tax rate helped the result and FY2026 guidance is softer than market expectations.

CSL has been on my watchlist to buy at a reasonable price but the step down in R&D spending to help meet earnings forecasts concerns me.

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Strawman
Added 4 months ago

Great points @Bear77 @OxyBBear

I can guarantee you I could deliver a massive boost to EPS for CSL if i were CEO -- just slash all non-essential costs! Easy peasy!

Sure, i'd hobble its long term prospects, but it'd look good for a while. All of which is to say, I totally get your point @OxyBBear

Re ARB @Bear77 , i was only just saying the other day how the tariff issue is largely a non-issue for them. The kind of people who buy ARB products aren't doing so because they are the cheapest. They do it because they are the best. This isn't a commodity product, and if you want the best a 10% price hike doesn't substantially change the game for them. Of course, it's not what you want to see, and sure there might be an impact for the marginal buyer. But the market's reaction was overblown, so well done on taking advantage there.

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