Forum Topics IPG IPG FY25 Results

Pinned straw:

Added 3 months ago

IPD Group released earnings today, with results coming in ever so slightly above the downgraded guidance from the end of May. Mr. Market has digested this OK news and rewarded them with a 14% share price pop at the time of writing!

Looking through the numbers released on the PDF, I thought there might be a bullish market outlook statement driving this move, but it's pretty standard stuff about being well-placed for new work and they removed any mentions relating to the size of their order-book which has been common previously. On the call, the CFO explained that they've decided to stop regularly reporting the order-book size as it jumps around due to revenue recognition requirements, but it is currently at a similar level to previous. Not sure what to think about that. He's technically correct, but you wouldn't call removing the order book figure a bullish change.

The key positive news on the call that didn't really make the results announcement was around data centres and commercial construction. Data centre revenue was expected to be up 25% yoy in May, but actually finished the year 33% up on FY24. Beyond this they're forecasting a further 25% growth in data centre business for FY26 which would be an additional $15m of revenue. For commercial construction, in the CMI electrical business they are starting to see green shoots of demand and are hopeful of an improved year in FY26.

So in general, a steady result in competitive market conditions, and a positive outlook seems to have been just what the market wanted to see. But I can't quite get to a 14% jump based off these figures myself.

Keen to hear the thoughts of our resident expert @mikebrisy when he finds the time amongst a sea of other reports!

Key information from the release

• Revenue of $354.7 million representing 22.1% growth on pcp

• Continued revenue growth across the core IPD business (+5.2% on the pcp), CMI’s Minto Plugs (+6.4% on the pro-forma pcp), and EX Engineering (+5.2% on the pro-forma pcp), with all ahead of guidance on strength in key infrastructure sectors (i.e. Data Centres, Water & Waste Water)

• Addelec (revenue -12.8% on the pcp) was impacted by previously-disclosed project delays, while CMI Cables (revenue -10.2% on the pro-forma pcp) was lower than previously guided, driven by a major project order being realised in July (instead of prior to 30 June).

• Data Centre revenue growing strongly, up 33% on FY24, now representing 16% of group revenue

• EBITDA of $46.4 million, up 19.3% on pcp and NPAT of $26.2 million, up 17.0% on pcp

• EPS of 25.3 cents for FY25, up 8.6% on pcp, demonstrating the success of accretive acquisitions made in FY24

• Operating free cash flow (before interest and tax outflows) has continued to increase, rising to $52.7 million for FY25 with Operating free cash flow conversion (before interest and tax outflows) of 113.6% for FY25 (up from 91.3% in the pcp)

• Net Cash of $9.8 million as at 30 June 2025 (vs a Net Debt position of $8.8 million at 30 June 2024) after repaying $20.0 million of core debt during the year

• Total fully franked dividends of 12.6 cents per share declared for FY25, up 16.7% on pcp

mikebrisy
Added 3 months ago

@Dangles you are too kind!

And you've given a great report, hitting all the high points, so I'll just make a few selective comments.

Today's +15% SP reaction might seem completely overblown, particularly when you consider the underlying (i.e. pro forma) business performance, which is captured in the following extract from the earning's release. Focus on the numbers on the right hand side of the table below, when considering performance!

Yeah, right, it looks completely underwhelming. What annoyed me was that the CFO spoke of "operating leverage". but in my books, when revenue goes up 1.2%, GM declines -2.3% and EBITDA declines by -6.8%, then that's not positive operating leverage!

In any event, to properly assess the leverage, we really need to see two consecutive clean years - and I am not sure these guys will ever give that to us, given the strategy.

85f89dd0f9fd963f9b5e04f841ffb11145a649.png

So, @Dangles, to understand the SP reaction, I think you have to go back to last year's AGM, when the outlook was downgraded and then downgraded again earlier this year. In my view, bad though those were, I considered the market to have over-reacted. Analyst downgrades (albeit still with relatively bullish TPs) and a whole bunch of short and medium term technical indicators screamed "sell". And so we've seen a progressive SP decline, which probably included a significant number of investors who have done very well since the IPO but decided that this was "game over" for them and taken their profits.

So today's result (from my perspective) had three material elements:

  • Slight outperformance of lowered expectations
  • Strong contribution from datacentres (as you say) with a positive outlook and, now, becoming a more material contributor so that you can project it's contribution forward.
  • Repeated statements that Commercial/Industrial construction is "turning" from its cyclical low.


The first two points are self-explanatory and @Dangles has covered them.

For the 3rd point, consider the AI Group Construction Index to which the large part of $IPG is exposed:

2e281a193b224a8cbe0fbf887efc1f8ac40b2a.png

Source: https://www.aigroup.com.au/resourcecentre/research-economics/australian-industry-index/

Here you can clearly see the cyclical uptick in the Australia PCI (construction) index. Falling interest rates should also (with a lag effect) feed through this channel, although I think Mike Sainsbury was referring to an AI Group report which was more of a leading indicator of activity. Ultimately, much of $IPG's underpeformance in the last year has been the macroeconomic conditions biting.

So, I think the optimism today is that: 1) data centres are growing strongly and 2) the overall cycle is expected to turn. So in that context, I think we've simply got back to a SP that makes more sense.

I am going to go back and have a look at my valuation. I do not think I caught the near term weakness of the construction cycle adequately when I first valued $IPG, and therefore likely over-valued this business. (I was at $5.00 ($4.00-$6.00) in November 2024, when I downgraded my initial rough valuation of $5.40 from July-24.)

Given my long-term thesis of the electrification and data-isation of everything, I'll be honest and say that I expected (wrongly) $IPG to do a better job of outperforming the sector. Now that we have a reasonably clean year or data, I will revisit the valuation.

I'm undecided about $IPG as a long term holding. Certainly, I am interested in the business model and the sectors to which it is exposed. I also think we could start to see an uptick in investment in the sector from cyclical lows. However, caution on this front is required, as overall industry capacity utilisation is still below long term averages. While that is good for inflation, it is not good for construction. So I really do want to see the electrification and data-isation themes driving performance nore explicitly.

As ever, there was a lot of "word salad" in the management presentation, and it was hard to find any real nuggests beyond those pulled out by @Dangles.

And, I also did not like that the Order Book metric has been withdrawn. To me, that means only one thing - it ain't strong!

So, on the one hand, my gut is telling me that it's time to part company with $IPG based more on factors to do with management style and behaviour (yes, @Karmast, I hear you!) On the other hand, my head is telling me that now could be precisely the wrong time to do this, as there could be a set up for another series of strong results.

Oh, and then there is the prospect on new M&A to muddy the waters.

I need to give this one some careful consideration. I expect there will be some positive recommendations coming out, and although maybe today's relief rally could fall back, I don't see any negative short term catalysts.

I'm between 2 camps at the moment, so a HOLD for now.

Disc. Held in RL and SM

17

Shapeshifter
Added 3 months ago

I think you are right @mikebrisy with an EPS of 25.3c and an SP today of $4.15 the trailing PE is 16 so the share price has probably just caught up with what is fair value.

What struck me about this full year report is some segments of the business are doing well such as Data Centres, Water & Waste Water and CMI’s Minto Plugs while others went backwards such as CMI’s Cables whos fortunes are tied to Commercial Construction/Buildings and Addelec who were affected by project delays.

Addelec is an interesting one in that they are responsible for the EV rollout for public transport and charging infrastructure projects. I thought the graph they provided below in their presentation was quite telling. Even though EV sales have "tripled since 2022" the growth of BEV's since CY23 is actually pretty flat as most of this growth has come from PHEV. PHEV's do not require the same infrastructure as BEV's as they also have standard ICE as well. My impression is the adoption of pure BEV's is happening slower in Australia than originally thought and so some of this work is being pushed out into the future.b4dc5afaf19f3ad437064406a734ccdea41102.png

The Services division only booked 6% of revenue which was flat from last FY and was actually EBITDA negative for FY25. This is a small, not growing, loss making part of the business and I'm unsure what this part of the business is doing. Perhaps this design and project work is a portal to IPD/CMI electrical distribution sales.

eb6fd388693700b468dcf411ee26ed23b01fbc.pngIf Data Centre revenue continues to grow at 25% pa then it should grow to become larger than the second largest segment of the busines, Infrastructure/Industrial/Mining, in 2-3 years assuming a 10% growth rate for Infrastructure/Industrial/Mining.

Disc. Held in RL

15

Karmast
Added 3 months ago

Great summaries @mikebrisy and @Dangles

This is a business I really want to like and they are playing in sectors that should have long term tailwinds.

When I look at actual/statutory results for the year, what I see is revenue that has jumped by $65 million but earnings are only up $3 million - the opposite of operating leverage! And I do love management teams that don't / stop providing detailed guidance (my view is that's up to us and the analysts to forecast...not management). What I don't love is management teams that remove an important metric, like their order book, if it isn't showing what they'd like right now.

I remember EML Payments playing these kinds of games 5 years ago (look at this now, not that etc), before it all came crashing down when the sunlight was forced through their window...

Fingers crossed and again, with good management this business should prosper.

21

edgescape
Added 3 months ago

As you all know I have probably held this the longest out of everyone here. I think I got in about 1.50

I think everyone must have liked the cashflow increase from last period.

I might hold a little bit longer as i still like the business. Maybe if it pops a bit more I sell and move on.

On the other hand the update from reece as pointed out by @thunderhead paints a different picture to the macro outlook by IPG although Reece is also in the US

11