Forum Topics NCK NCK NCK valuation

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Added 3 months ago
Justification

07/02/2024

On the back of Nick Scali’s 1H24 results announcement today and a 17.5% hike in the share price to over $14 per share, I thought I should revisit my previous valuation of $16 per share back in August 2023.

My previous valuation was based on McNiven’s formula which estimates future owners annual return by considering forecast normalised ROE as the internal rate of return (IRR), the percentage of reinvested earnings, the current equity value, and dividends paid to shareholders (including franking credits).

I have received a number of questions lately from fellow Strawpeople in regards to what inputs I use, and where I source my data from for the formula. As I work through this valuation for Nick Scali I’ll attempt to explain this (just this once, I promise!).

McNivens Formula is not a ‘magic black box’ you can plug in known variables to come up with an exact valuation. Far from it! In fact, I think 6 people using the same formula would come up with 6 different valuations for the same business, and that’s how it should be! The formula should be used looking forward, not backwards.

It’s been a while since I’ve used McNivens Formula to calculate manually. I decided to build an excel spreadsheet after @PortfolioPlus asked if I had one (what better excuse!). Since then rather than spend time on manual arithmetic, I can test different scenarios instead, eg. what happens when I change my estimate for future ROE, or the percentage of earnings reinvested, or percentage franking, or what happens to valuation if I change my required annual return.

Recently @Chagsy asked where I source the data from for the formula. Firstly, let’s look at the formula:

V = E (APC/RR x RI + D)/RR

Where,

V = valuation

E = shareholder equity per share (Book Value)

APC = Adopted performance criteria. I use an estimate of future normalised ROE.

RR = Your required (or perhaps desired) annual return as an investor, risk adjusted for the reliability of the business you are valuing

RI = Reinvested Income (reinvested earnings)

The formula is reasonably simple, but the valuation can be very different depending on what inputs you choose for APC, RR and RI. I also adjust the dividend component for franking credits (D/0.7) because these are very significant to your annual returns if the dividend component is high and dividends are fully franked.

It’s worth reading the supporting information here to get a better understanding of how the formula works. I believe the fundamentals behind the formula are sound.

Stepping through how I come with the input data:

Shareholder Equity (E)

Last time I valued NCK I worked this out by dividing the total shareholder equity by the number of shares ($179.6 shareholder equity / 81 million shares). Shareholder equity is not a subjective figure and can be sourced from the latest financials, the Commsec website (Book Value), or data sources such as Simply Wall Street or possibly Tickr. The book value on Commsec is only updated once every year after the FY financials are lodged, and this normally takes a number of days. You can easily work it out yourself by sourcing data from the latest financials. Looking at the 1H24 financials on page 7. Total equity at 31 December was $192 million, there were 81 million shares outstanding, so shareholder equity in the business has increased from $2.22 per share to $2.37 per share.

Adopted Performance Criteria (APC)

For APC I use a 3 to 5 year estimate of future Return on Equity (ROE). This is the most important variable and the hardest to estimate. ROE = EPS/Equity per share. There are a few things I consider in coming up with the estimate, historical ROE trend, headwinds or tailwinds that will influence future ROE, and analyst future earnings estimates. Last time I assumed a forward ROE of 40%. Looking at 10 years of historical ROE data, a forward ROE of 40% seems achievable based on track record.

79c2295b914abd88b8abe75b31c88fc60bbb4f.jpeg

Source: Commsec website

Looking forward, NCK is planning to roll out more stores across Australia and New Zealand, and gross profit margins have improved to 65.6%.

b538cdc0fb93fdeb096113d0babc2aefe60b41.jpeg

Source: NCK 1H24 Results Presentation

Currently analyst consensus EPS for FY26 is $1 per share. Based on current shareholder equity of $2.37 per share, that would put future ROE at 42%. NCK has just announced basic half year EPS of 53.1cps for 1H24, so FY26 EPS of $1 per share and ROE of 40% looks achievable.

Of course, GDP growth could struggle and this might be a headwind for NCK. The need for more housing is a possible tailwind.

Overall, a ROE of 40% looks OK.

Reinvested Income (RI)

Last time I assumed payout ratio of 70% and 30% reinvested earnings. 1H24 payout ratio is 66%, so I’m happy to assume 30% RI going forward.

Dividend (D)

I’m assuming a payout ratio of 70%. D in the formula is APC x payout percentage = 40 x 70% = 28%.

Required Return (RR)

Your Required Return (RR) is totally up to you. It should be higher than the risk free rate of about 5% to 6%. I like to use a RR of between 10% and 15% depending on how predictable future earnings might be. However, I find the market is prepared to pay very high premiums for the most popular high growth/High ROE businesses that can reinvest most of their earnings. For example when I value Promedicus (PME) using McNiven’s Formula and assuming a forward ROE of 46% and 100% reinvested earnings, I need to be happy with an annual return of 3.5% at the current share price of $108. Either McNiven’s formula doesn’t work for these types of businesses…or they are overvalued? CSL, RMD, ALU, COH, IEL all offer less than 8% annual shareholder returns at the current prices according to McNivens formula. So, for these types of businesses (and I have a few) I am happy to accept and use a 7% to 8% RR for valuation using the formula.

NCK is not a PME so I’d be looking for a 10% to 15% RR, and for poorer quality businesses even higher, perhaps up to 20%. But these types of poorer quality ‘value’ businesses are not that attractive on the metrics, and I’m preferring to stay away from them.

Valuation

Now that I’ve explained how I come up with the inputs and where I source and estimate the data, I will jump straight into the valuation using my spreadsheet.

Assuming ROE of 40% (APC), E of $2.37, 30% of earnings reinvested at a required return of 10% I get a valuation of $19 per share. Accounting for more risk and requiring a return of 15% I get a valuation of $11. If I assumed future ROE will decline to 35% and I work on a required return of 12%, I get a valuation of $14.80. This is the beauty of a spreadsheet where you can play around with some different assumptions to see how each impact valuation.

So what valuation should I use? I think the economy might be slowing a little over the next few years and I’m more risk adverse, and a little less bullish than my previous valuation for NCK. Therefore I’m going with a future ROE of 35% and a required return of 12%, to come up with a valuation to $15.

Having said that, today I lightened off some of our NCK holdings IRL when it went over $14 per share. Why? NCK has grown to over 9% of our total IRL portfolios and I think we need to reduce some risk. It’s also an easier decision to make when there is no longer any capital gains tax to pay in the super fund :).

I hope this drawn out valuation process has helped a few fellow Strawpeople to understand how I use McNivens Formula. I also tend to cross check my valuations with PE x future earnings which is more commonly used, trading ranges (which most brokers seem to use), and technical analysis can also help in buy and sell decisions. Feel free to ask any questions if I’ve totally confused you! ;)

12/08/2023

It’s been a while since I’ve revisited my valuation for Nick Scali (August 2022). The FY23 results are testament to the quality of this business. Thank you @mikebrisy and @Strawman for your excellent summaries.

@Strawman said “It kind of feels too good to be true. Is the market really that silly? Or just too focused on the short term?”

I think it’s a case of the market focusing too much on the short term, and not believing that the incredible returns on shareholder equity (ROE) this business has been able to achieve for over a decade are in fact sustainable. There is something unique about Nick Scali’s business model that sets it apart from most other retailers (bar Lovisa).

For 10 years Nick Scali has returned investors an average 50% on shareholder equity. That’s the bit that is almost ‘too good to be true’. BUT, can this incredible ROE continue into the future? Perhaps not? With higher interest rates and the lowest housing turnover in 20 years (see my straw “Time Horizon Arbitrage?”) the revenue growth, margins and ROE might all come down? Or, perhaps not?

Australia is in desperate need of housing. There is a pent-up demand for housing which at some point in time needs to be met. You could argue we are currently going through a low ebb in the housing cycle and there is a bull case for Nick Scali when the supply of housing meets the demand.

So what should we expect of ROE going forward? What was the ROE for FY23?

I couldn’t find a ROE figure quoted anywhere in the reports, but it’s a very simple calculation from the reported figures (4E and Annual Report):

  • Total shareholder equity = $179.6M (page 47)
  • NPAT = $101M (page 21)

Therefore FY23 ROE = 101/179.6 = 56%

Again, Nick Scali has not disappointed with a ROE of 56%.

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Nick Scali reinvests a sizeable amount of its earnings back into growth, this year it’s 40%, but usually around 30%. So the growth equation is also simple, 30% x 50% which is 15%. This makes the annual 13.5% increase in dividends that @strawman referred to possible. This year Nick Scali can pay dividends with a gross yield of 10% (including franking credits) and still grow earnings at 15%. There is not magic, just simple maths.

Valuation

What about the future? Let’s assume Nick Scali can maintain a ROE of 40% for the next 5 years on a current shareholder equity of $2.22 per share ($179.6M equity / 81M shares). Using McNiven’s StockVal formula to work out the valuation assuming 30% of earnings are reinvested and we require an annual return of 12% (including franking credits), I get a valuation of $14.80. If I were happy with a 11% annual return (including franking credits) I could pay up to $17 per share.

I’m going somewhere in the middle to arrive at a valuation of $16, the same as my previous valuation 12 months ago.

Disc: Held IRL (10%), SM (17.5%)

22/08/2022

It is an extra busy time with reporting this week, so here is a quick back of the envelope valuation for Nick Scali based on the FY22 results.

The business performed as I expected, except there weren’t enough lounges delivered to customers homes by 30 June to tip the earnings into record profit territory. Anthony Scali said the availability of delivery drivers is the hold up in the supply chain. Delivery is also the biggest impact on increased costs at the moment.

The huge positive is the back log of outstanding orders yet to be delivered, up 67% on FY21. Gross Margins are slightly down from 63.5% to 61%, mostly due to the dilutive effect from the Plush acquisition. However, Anthony Scali said they are working toward changing half the product line offering at Plush to increase profit margins. One popular line they introduced this year had a gross margin of over 60%, so lounge by lounge, month by month, the margins at Plush will improve over the next few years.

I have done some quick calculations on Return on Equity (ROE) and come up with underlying ROE of 57%, and statutory ROE of 53% (will check again later). The ROE trend looks pretty good which makes Nick Scali one of the best performing retailers on the ASX (bar Lovisa!)

ffbb9d92ed524a48f476af760712ebed33d739.jpeg

Extrapolating from Commsec chart

Using McNiven’s StockVal formula and variables, ROE (APC) = 50%, Equity (E) = $1.74 per share (FY22), RI = 26%, FY Dividend = 70c (6.8%, or 9.7% incl. 100% franking credits), and a Required Return = 10%.

StockVal = $20.51, say $20

Sounds too high and I don’t expect Nick Scali will reach these prices any time soon because of the economic climate for discretionary spending which could come under some pressure from rising inflation and interest rates.

However, Nick Scali is forecasting higher revenues for FY23 (Outlook), and if the business can maintain current gross margins (circa 60%) and ROE (50%) over coming years, I can see no reason why Nick Scali won’t reach the share price highs achieved during 2021 (+$16). Therefore my current valuation is $16.

April 2022

I think Nick Scali is a wonderful, well-managed business which is now in the BUY zone. I’ve bought and sold Nick Scali a few times IRL. The only reason why I have sold each time was because I thought it had became overpriced. Last time I sold NCK the shares went on to gain another 25%. I got that one wrong!

Nick Scali has been on my watch list again lately, and today with more than 4% off the share price I jumped in!

It’s hard to find another retailer that can match Nick Scali with its track record of consistently high Return on Equity (ROE) and earnings growth.

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(Source: Commsec, April 2022)

Nick Scali increased ROE from 30% in 2012 to 50% in 2019, and during the pandemic ROE pushed through 80% in 2020. I’m not aware of any other retailer that has matched Nick Scali’s ROE over the past 9 years.

Over the same period of time earnings have grown 10 fold, from 10c to over $1 per share. As you would expect using the valuation formula, V= E x PE, NCK became a 10 bagger in November 2021 before the price began to fall from its all time high of $16.00. Today NCK closed at $10.68, down 33% from its peak 5 months ago.

So why the big change in sentiment? As @Noddy74 pointed out in his straw HY results 3 months ago “I'm getting a bit jack of hearing about how Nick Scali has been a COVID beneficiary as consumers spend more time at home and have less to spend discretionary funds on, and how this will reverse”

To be fair I think Nick Scali has benefited more than usual from COVID, however I expect (and so too do the brokers) ROE to return to approx 50% from here on.

Using Brian McNiven’s StockVal formula (McNivan, 1985) and using ROE of 50%, we could expect Nick Scali to return investors 12% per year going forward based on the current share price of $10.68.

Alternatively, using the formula V = E x PE and discounted at 10% per year where E23 = $1.05 (Average of 4 Analyst Earnings Estimates, S&P Global, Simply Wall Street data) and a PE of 13, we get a discounted valuation of $10.92. This value excludes dividends likely to be over 6% fully franked going forward.

Citi’s Target Price:

According to Tristan Harrison from The Motley Fool :

“Broker Citi currently rates Nick Scali as a buy with a price target of $17.60. That implies a possible rise of around 60%. Citi thinks that Nick Scali will pay a grossed-up dividend yield of 9.9% in FY22 and 10% in FY23.”

Summary

To sum up, I feel very comfortable buying Nick Scali shares at the current price of $10.68 where I expect a return of at least 12% per year over the next few years. If the share price were to reach Citi’s target of $17.60 in the next 12 months, I think I would be taking some profits.

mikebrisy
3 months ago

@Rick FWIW I did a quick DCF about 6 months ago and got $14.90. I haven't published valuation on SM, as I wanted to run some scenarios and sensitivities, which remains on my to do list.

Furthermore, I assume a 5-yr NPAT CAGR of 12% (should be possible given store growth, at current margins), so on a current forward P/E of about 15x, SP of $15,00 only puts it on a Forward P/E of 16.4, which given the growth and the quality (margins, ROE), is not at all demanding.

Bottom line - I'm not at all phased by today's $14.00 close. But to increase my position, I'd prefer to buy it cheaper, which based on historical behaviour, I'm 90% sure I'll get the chance to over the next 6 months.

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Chagsy
3 months ago

Thanks @Rick and @mikebrisy

ive just finished the book, and have started playing around with McNiven’s formula.

in general the book is a useful read and a homage to the greatest investing double act the world is likely to see (Buffett and Munger): quality, quality, quality.

But what I particularly like about it is how it puts hard numbers to all those variables that, as vaguely informed investors, we know to really want and to look for, but have a poorly formed structure of how to incorporate into some kind of valuation: (ROE,ROFE, IRR, equity per share [not earnings per share!] pay out ratio etc).

It also forces you to work out what return you are prepared to accept for the kind of company you are potentially investing in. To me this method is more intuitive: this is a high growth company that may not carry on getting a ROFE of 35% for the next 5 years so if I’m going to invest I want to get a 20% annual return vs. this is an established lower risk company that should be able to carry on with the same metrics without too much trouble so I am happy to accept a return of 9% (or whatever). Rather than applying a discount rate - but I accept this is horses for courses

I have used DCFs in the past but have found them too subjective: a percent here or there on TV or WACC can give wildly differing values. The same error can also apply to McNiven’s formula when estimating NROE and payout ratio. Somehow, I feel more comfortable with these variables. Time may make a fool of me on this: I do tend to get excited by new things!

Also, I don’t think it can easily be adapted for those companies that aren’t yet profitable. Please correct me if I’m wrong. So the unprofitable, nearly FCF +ve, “inflection point” companies that Small Cap investors often prize so highly are not served well by this valuation method. That said, (oh man, I used that phrase too! Next I’ll be saying “essentially“ - it’s the new epidemic: @Strawman and @Claude I’m looking at you) this doesn’t bother me too much as my Stock investing habits slowly migrate more towards quality and resilience.

Im going to reverse engineer a few of Ricks valuations and check my methodology but hope to print a few valuations using McNiven’s formula in the coming months.

All in all, one of the better investing methodology books I’ve read, but does require a couple of passes to get the major concepts clear, and a moderate level of understanding of investing terminology.

best wishes

C

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Rick
3 months ago

@Chagsy I’m pleased you found McNiven’s book useful. What I like about the book and the formula is how it gets you thinking about what really matters when valuing a business.

I’ve tried using McNiven’s formula to value pre-profit businesses on the inflection point by estimating future ROE (based on expected future earnings) without much success. This learning experience has cost me some real dollars, so I tend to avoid using it for pre-profiit businesses.

When I first started using the spreadsheet I sorted the businesses according to the highest investor returns at the current share price, hunting for the best opportunities near the top of the list. Now I sort the businesses by highest future ROE and hunt for the best quality businesses with an acceptable return (some as low as 6% to 7% according to McNivens formula).

I look forward to seeing your valuations and assumptions using McNiven’s formula @Chagsy. Please message me if you would like a copy of my spreadsheet.

Cheers,

Rick

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Strawman
3 months ago

@Rick no pressure, but if ever you wanted to do a walkthrough of the process, let us know and we can line up a zoom meeting. I think a lot of members would find it valuable.

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Solvetheriddle
3 months ago

@Rick good work and interesting, i use basically the same inputs but move them around to derive an IRR output. I like the way you adjust for risk, many moons ago, i had a hard and high IRR cut-off, which i thought was being conservative. what it actually did was eliminate the quality businesses and skewed my portfolio towards cheap (and in time nasty stocks). the essential ingredients are future ROE, asset growth and adjusting for the risk of the organisation imo, well done on the work.

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Karmast
3 months ago

@Rick , @mikebrisy , @Chagsy , and of course @Strawman


Thanks for the insights on Mcnivens formula. I hadn't looked at it before so will dig in deeper.

In relation to sustaining the high ROE and the future in general for Nick Scali, my thoughts and recent learnings are as follows -

  • I shopped both Nick Scali and Plush over the past month for a new couch. Takeaways were there are plenty of cross over options in both style and materials between both stores. So many fabrics, colours and configurations available in each style, that it would be rare they lose a sale to lack of choice! Same ordering and delivery process in both stores. Prices very competitive and the quality seems very good for the price. Some lower cost options in Plush though. And the service was excellent in both - helpful but not pushy. So from a consumer point of view was very happy and as an investor you can see the synergies that have been created with the Plush integration and the staff and process was sustainable.


  • Huge whack of working capital in retail is tied up in inventories. But NCK has minimised this by the make to order model. Yes you have to wait 3 months for delivery so if you need it quick, they're out of play. But if you can wait, you get a better couch and exactly what you want. 30% deposit required up front and with a 65% gross margin it means not much cash required to pay factories before they get the full payment on delivery. Hence the warehousing space, excess inventory issues etc are all minimised and working capital is maximised.


  • Here in Brisbane I had to drive 25 minutes to our closest store. Not a big deal but there are at least two more major shopping locations closer to us that in time they could open a store. So the target to open around 70 more stores nationally over the next 10 years seems reasonable to me and should be a big growth driver.


  • Just this week major competitor Greenlit Brands, who own Freedom and Fantastic Furniture shared their financials in The Australian. (This is who they bought Plush off a few years ago.) On $1 billion of revenue for the year, they booked a $9 million loss. On half that revenue, NCK booked $100 million in EPS in the same period! If you look at net operating cash flow, Greenlit was about 10% of revenue for the year, where NCK was 25%. So clearly they have a moat with the unique business model.


  • I attended the AGM in October and found Anthony Scali and the whole team, very approachable, down to earth, transparent and ultimately shareholder friendly. The culture seemed strong.


  • In my humble opinion this is one of the highest quality, growth businesses on the ASX. It has maintained ROE of over 40%, gross margin of over 60%, net margins of over 15%, EPS growth of around 20% and with no dilution for at least a decade. And yet you are only paying 14 times PE today. On a look through earnings basis it has outperformed the other "quality growth" stocks on the ASX such as CSL, REA, CAR etc for a decade now but simply hasn't had the multiple expansion they have.


  • And a possible future catalyst for some multiple expansion will be when they move into the ASX200 and have all the new passive money flooding in then. I hope that will happen in the next 12 to 24 months.


Happy holder IRL and on Strawman


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Rick
3 months ago

Thanks @Chagsy@mikebrisy @Solvetheriddle and @Karmast for you kind comments and contributions.

@Strawman I’m happy to give it a shot talking about McNiven’s Formula on Zoom. Perhaps I can talk about why I use it, how I use it and some of the limitations I’ve found in using it?

Is it possible to share a few slides and my screen on an iPad? My laptop is ancient! It’s been a while since I presented using Zoom.

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Solvetheriddle
3 months ago

Great go for it @Rick

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Strawman
3 months ago

Of course @Rick -- whatever you think works best. Let me DM you to arrange details.

Looking forward to this!

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jimmybuffalino
3 months ago

@Chagsy did you read Market Wise? I can’t seem to find it for sale anywhere.

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Rick
3 months ago

@jimmybuffalinoI don’t think you can still buy a copy of Market Wise. However, his later book, “Concise Guide to Value Investing” contains the same information but written in a more user friendly and concise version. It’s available on Amazon.

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https://www.amazon.com.au/Concise-Guide-Value-Investing-McNiven

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jimmybuffalino
3 months ago

Brilliant, thanks!

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