Forum Topics IEL IEL Shorts push higher…what now?

Pinned straw:

Last edited a month ago

There’s always a time lag on Shortman.com.au, so the current chart does not show further capitulation on the CFO announcement (24/03/2024). My guess is that the short positions have moved even higher than the 3 year chart below, which shows 13.3% of the stock shorted on the 21/03/2024.

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IDP Education has moved to take 3rd position on the most shorted stocks on the ASX. It could get worse than this.

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The only reason these punters would be taking out short positions is to make a profit. They make a profit by buying back their short positions at a lower price. So the punters are thinking the share price will go lower still. Of course technical analysts are the shorters best friends. I don’t think you’d find a single chartist who would be calling IDP Education a buy at the moment. It would be a huge AVOID / SELL! Chartist say the market is driven by sentiment and charts, not fundamentals.

I think the chartists are absolutely right…short term! If you are short term investor you should heed what the shorters and the technical analysts are saying/doing, and head for the hills!

However, for a time horizon investor we are trying to look past the short term headwinds (one year is short term for me) and share price volatility, into the future of the business (2 years plus).

Benjamin Graham said “In the short run, the market is a voting machine but in the long run, it is a weighing machine.” For long horizon investors shorters are our “best friends”. When Polynovo was trading under $1.00, David Williams (the Chairman) said shorters are our “best friends”. I didn’t quite understand what he was saying at the time, but I get it now.

So if shorters are your “best friends”, chartists are your second best friends because they help to perpetuate the downward share price cycle and leading it to capitulation. It’s not great if you own it!

We shouldn’t ignore our “best friends” though. They influence the market by destroying sentiment and they appear to be “right” for a long time. It’s extremely risky betting against these guys with a short term horizon in mind. However, if you have a long term fundamental point of view (two years plus), shorters and chartists are indeed your “best friends”. Why? Because they convince the market to do irrational things and serve you up “once in a lifetime” bargains. Although, taking up these bargains is an extremely lonely place to be. No one else is doing it which is precisely why you are getting a bargain.

So don’t expect anyone to back your call. You’re all alone here! Of course your long term fundamental thesis needs to be right, or things will turn very sour, both in the short term and the long term.

So we must listen to what the our “best friends” are saying, watch the charts and try to pick an entry point that delivers the least amount of pain as possible. A point where the downside starts to appear limited. That’s easier said than done. It’s not a great feeling arriving too early only to see the stock go down another 20% to 30%.

Matt Joass has some really great thoughts about this in his article on The Hidden Power of Inflexion Points

cbirtles
a month ago

The thing about shorts is eventually they have to buy them back

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mikebrisy
a month ago

@Rick I have found that some of my best investments have been buying at times of high short interest and when the chartists are calling "sell". Examples are $PNV, $WTC and $RMD.

The key in your post is time horizon. The chartists are all about trading and short term. That's not my game. The chartists are also generally poor at picking the bottom. (They're really good at telling you when the bottom has passed!)

My approach, once I've decided I want to build a position based on fundamentals and if there is a short thesis in play, is to break up my intended position size into 3 or 4 chunks, and then to phase that in over time.

Psychologically, it is tough when you initiate a position and in the following days, weeks, and months it goes "red" by 5%, 10%, 20% or more. I can feel like I've made a bad decision. Phasing in increments is a good way of coping with that.

For example, last year I decided to double my holding of $RMD. I'd held $RMD and $FPH for a while in RL, had "deep dived" the segment and the companies, and had decided to exit $FPH and concentrate on $RMD, which I have now done. Just as I had reached that decision, the GLP-1 thing blew up. I soon concluded the market reaction was overblown and that I was happy to take a contrary view (covered here in ample straws and posts last year). So, I added chuncks of c. 20-30% during the peak short position and as shorts fell and then built back again. I added all the way from $30 down to $23. At one point all my new money was deeply in the "red".

Six months on, short interest is down from 3% to 1%, and its all noise in the past. I achieved the goal of doubling my position, and at what now looks like good prices all round. Now, $RMD was actually tough. After all, there is a plausible long term bear thesis, and it hasn't played out entirely yet. But I still see attractive returns in the medium term from my position.

$IEL is something different altogether. If you are a long term holder (by which I mean >5yrs, subject to performance etc. etc.) then the current short thesis is a short term phenomenon. I don't think even the shorters are arguing that the long term market for international students is going to decline.

On the contrary, as economic development continues in middle income countries in Asia, Africa and South America there are going to be increasing numbers of students seeking education in $IEL's markets. The overall market is projected to grow by anywhere from +50% to +200% by 2030. And that's before we talk about $IEL increasing its market share. So, the tailwinds are strong.

I see the bear/short thesis on $IEL as purely a short term cyclical phenomenon.

From 2019 through 2023 $IEL was on my Watchlist, but it was too expensive for me. I missed the bus, as it wasn't on my radar screen earlier.

The current macro-environment, government policy and short positions are the gift that has brought the business into my BUY zone. And I know when that happens maybe I'll have to tolerate 6 months or a year or so when I am in the "red". Indeed, with the short position apparently continuing to increase, it looks like we've got further to fall. So, I am keeping my last 25% of powder dry until there's some movement on sentiment or until I see the FY24.

Where I can improve my performance is better analysing charts and shorts to improve my timing / phasing in when building positions. That would probably add several % points to my RL returns. For example, even though my weighted-price is probably not too different from when the chartists come out the other end and go "buy", I lose a few % return points by allocating 3,6, 12 months early than in restrospect you otherwise would have. It understanding technicals can help me do that better, then I guess it is a skill worth sharpening.

As ever, I could be completely wrong. So, I am capping my ultimate allocation at 5% RL.

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@mikebrisy i would continue to do what you are doing Mike. i find praying to two Gods is very hard, one God if enough (valuation-based investing). having said that we know, ie imho that momentum investing is bigger now than ever before, so stocks will move further than you think. a recent example for me was Adyen. i won't go into details but i bought 2/3 of my holdings and waited to "time" the other 1/3. i thought they were substantially undervalued after missing some numbers. one morning i woke knowing that they had a show and tell overnight in SF, i checked the share price and it said $9.60, it had closed $6.90 before. i told my partner someone had transposed the numbers. NO! all they said was they were back on track, +40%, and that was about it. the same could happen here. it all looks easy in hindsight, i think you approach it fine.

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Rick
a month ago

@mikebrisy and @Solvetheriddle Ditto! I have been doing the same but I’m thinking there could be room for improvement around inflexion points.

When there is an undervalued quality stock with short term headwinds, I usually start buying far too early, then continue averaging down to the lowest point. I’m usually in the red for a while until the share price starts heading back upwards again. After today’s kick in the share price for IDP Education I’m still down 4%.

We didn’t own RMD until the Ozempic threat, now it’s a 3% holding. As you said Mike, long term we could still be wrong with RMD.

The one that got away from me just over 12 months ago was James Hardy. I was watching and waiting for it to drop to $25, but it started climbing from $26.08 and hasn’t looked back since, now $61.60. A missed opportunity by being just a bit too greedy (over one lousy dollar!).

I get where @Solvetheriddleis coming from. You cant pick the bottom, but you can probably average down and average up around the point of inflexion for a quality business you believe is well undervalued. I need to get over my bias of not continuing to add as the stock turns upwards past the inflexion point.

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Bear77
a month ago

28-March-2024: Speaking of shorting...

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Our Most Open Discussion on Shorting (Will Thomson Interview) - YouTube [28-March-2024]

To subscribe to their new free daily morning email, to be called "The Director's Special", and of course their regular Saturday Hooteroo Herald newletter that contains links to their past week's podcasts, Trav's favourite tweets, which often features gems from Tin Investor@TinInvestor (who looks suspiciously like @Rapstar here on Strawman.com), and "What Caught Our Eye This Week", click on this link.

[Disclosure: I'll get referral credits, which put me in the running for a free slab of Dingo!, so cheers!]

It's all discussed at the beginning of today's poddy - link above.

To go straight to the shorting discussion go here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WK6GpDqC5Y&t=415s

CHAPTERS

0:00:00 A BIG announcement

0:06:55 Will Thomson on Money of Mine

0:09:03 Why short Piedmont Lithium

0:14:43 When's the right time to short

0:20:04 The Fund Manager - Prime Broker relationship

0:25:55 Massif's Lithium Americas holding

0:28:59 Will Milei be beneficial for mining in Argentina?

0:31:33 The Lundin Family BIG copper play

0:36:31 A sentiment change in copper

0:40:41 Copper torque

0:46:05 The right number of positions in a portfolio

0:47:24 The mindset change from insurance to equity investing

0:52:12 Whether to hedge currency risk

0:54:27 The process of writing out your ideas

0:57:02 Centaurus and the broader Nickel market

1:04:03 Are China ramping up Lepidolite to buy Western Mines cheaper?

1:06:43 Has uranium strucutrally changed?

1:09:10 Is this company a fraud?

1:12:49 Massif's Adriactic investment

DISCLAIMER

All Money of Mine episodes are for informational purposes only and may contain forward-looking statements that may not eventuate. The co-hosts are not financial advisers and any views expressed are their opinion only. Please do your own research before making any investment decision or alternatively seek advice from a registered financial professional.

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