Forum Topics WOW WOW Price Drop

Pinned straw:

Last edited 7 months ago

im on my honeymoon. So I have to be quick.

but Woolworths must be getting to a good price to buy soon? What do others think?

i would imagine after the ‘cost of living’ narrative goes away in a couple of years….these guys can get on with milking the duopoly?

thoughts?


Ipsum
Added 7 months ago

I'm enjoying this discussion about a company I wouldn't normally focus on. One of the best things about being on Strawman.

It's not specific to Woolworths, but I'd also consider the continued high rate of net immigration to Australia as a tailwind.

The federal government is aiming to reduce net migration to "375,000 a year by June 2024" (The Guardian). This is a reduction from the current level but still high compared to pre-2020 levels.


b4c7d60cf42ca88df44022fb0a9168094baaf8.png

Chart from ABS Media release, plus my annotations

Sustaining this level of immigration means Australia's population looks set to grow at rate that is high compared to rest of the OECD.

It's also looking like the way to achieve this is to reduce the number of student visas (which accounts for about half of temporary visas). I assume this is because the alternative is to reduce the number of skilled worker visas, which business wouldn't be too happy about. (I guess you could pour money into onshore manufacturing while reducing the number of skilled workers coming in, but it might not be a good idea). My guess is this means a higher proportion of the net migration we are left with are skilled workers, and I assume they will have higher disposable incomes and more likely to spend more on groceries.

It's not a direct win for Woolworths but I think it can only help. Be interested to hear any counter arguments!



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Tom73
Added 7 months ago

Good point @Ipsum the immigration adds to the system growth to juice up growth in what is a mature and competitive (political distractions aside) market. So a growth rate at 4-5% in sales over the long term plus a 5% dividend (FC included) for a very stable defensive business gives a 9-10% return, which is very good on a risk adjusted basis.

So the PE just above 20 is a good price to my mind, with low downside risk but also I acknowledge that upside is very limited, so if the PE got back towards 30 again then it would be a sell.

Intelligent Investor have it as a HOLD, but BUY at $30 so it's on the cusp for them, viewing the quarterly result as poor but not indicative of any long-term issues, just a bad quarter.

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Scoonie
Added 7 months ago

It is interesting in the media commentary on Woolworths poor Q3 trading results there doesn’t appear to be any reference on the possible impact of Brad Banducci’s Australia Day merchandise debacle. Anecdotally I know two elderly people who said they were no longer going to shop at Woolworths because of the perceived slight of removing Australia day merchandise from Woolworths stores.  

Suppose across Australia a number of these cranky old Woolworths shoppers switched and now shop at Coles or Aldi instead. It could have been enough to substantially account for Woolworths sales growth of 1.5% versus 5.1% (4.2% same store growth) for Coles.

Brad acknowledges Woolworths poor results with his statement to analysis yesterday “We were out-traded in the quarter, let me just own that”.

However no mention of his self inflicted Australia Day Merchandise Cluster . Instead Brad wants to talk about Coles having Pokemon cards.

WOW ASX: Woolworths’ March quarter sales grew 1.5 per cent, thumped by Coles (afr.com)


Well this kinda fits with Brad's known behaviour at the 4 Corners walkout interview and the recent Senate enquiry.  And we can only speculate how he treated suppliers behind closed doors.

At least you can’t fault Brad for a consistency in arrogance.

I am sure most WOW shareholders will be glad to see the back of Brad. 

Maybe he will turn up at Bapcor? 

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Strawman
Added 7 months ago

Hope you're enjoying your honeymoon @Parko5

I've long been on the record as saying Woolies is an awesome business, but has for a long time traded well above what its likely growth could justify. Consensus estimates are something like 4-5% CAGR in EPS over the next 3 years (and these tend to overshoot a bit)

But as you say things are getting a bit more interesting following the ~20% drop over the last 12 months. Now you're looking at a forward yield of 3.5%, or about 5% with franking. You get that at present with a term deposit, but with a bit of modest growth in earnings and dividends that total shareholder return is nudging double digits (applying the heuristic that starting yield plus dividend growth = total return)

So i think it's getting close to fair value, and perhaps even good value when you risk-adjust things.

The prospect of "higher for longer" (and, indeed, some calling for rate increases!) is probably what's taking the shine off things. But I'm in the camp that higher rates wont eventuate regardless of the inflation situation, at least not much. Things just start to break with a higher benchmark lending rate, and the powers that be will ALWAYS choose 'cost of living' pressures over a recession. As I see it, that's the choice facing policy makers right now (barring a radical improvement in fiscal responsibility and sensible public investment -- so don't hold your breath)

Anyway, Woolies is unlikely to shoot the lights out from here, but you could do a lot worse if you were after long term capital preservation, income and some modest growth. Especially if you were a bit bearish in terms of the macro picture.

I'm considering adding some to my SMSF.

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mikebrisy
Added 7 months ago

@Strawman totally agree with your analysis on $WOW and on macro.

Have never held $WOW or $COL as I didn't expect them to outperform the index over the medium to long term.

But at today's price, I do expect that to happen (from a TSR perspective). I was teetering on the edge at $32.00, but today I tipped over and sold some trackers and bought some $WOW in RL at $30.50.

I'll hold until it recovers to the point where I am indifferent again, probably around $35-36 in today's terms, which has to be totally on the cards over 6-12 months. So the prospect of a decent return with limited downside risk from here, and the option value to hold for longer if necessary.

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Strawman
Added 7 months ago

That's all I needed to hear to pull the trigger @mikebrisy!

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Bear77
Added 7 months ago

Me2. I just sold S32 which has rallied back from below $3 to above $3.50 over recent weeks and switched that cash into WOW in my largest real money portfolio - have attempted to do the same here - as I think WOW is a safer and more defensive play from here at these levels if things turn a bit pear-shaped. In other words, South32 is a "risk on" play at this point from these levels, and Woolworths is a "risk off" play, being consumer staples (so will do OK in a recession or any other economic downturn) and also available at a good price today due to the negative market reaction to their latest update. Still holding S32 in my SMSF (and not WOW) as S32 is still OK for a longer term holding - and so is WOW, but I'm more comfortable with S32 in that portfolio and WOW in my other (larger) one. Prepared to trade more in my larger portfolio and leave my SMSF alone most of the time.

I'm not a fan of Coles, and if you've ever tried using their home delivery service you might know why. Woolworths home delivery is far superior on a number of levels, from ease of website use to being able to nominate alternatives if products are OOS, and add notes for each of those products, as well as their after-sales-and-delivery automated customer help service - using chatbots - which allows me to sort out delivery issues such as missing products very quickly and get a refund added to my account, to their superior range for most products.

There will be some negativity in the market over recent media reports of the cozy duopoly misusing their market power to hurt small suppliers, and Brad Banducci (WOW's CEO) being threatened with jail time by a disgruntled pollie recently (at a senate committee hearing where Brad couldn't or wouldn't reveal WOW's ROE - see here: Why Woolworths CEO Brad Banducci was threatened with jail time | The Business (youtube.com)) but that's just talk, and doesn't affect the business, and despite their huff and puff, the pollies aren't going to handicap the big 2 (COL/WOW) because (a) there are so many ordinary retail shareholders and (b) it would just give the foreign-owned competition (such as Aldi) a helping hand which might suit the ACCC but wouldn't be a smart political move I imagine.

Anyway, ignoring that noise, WOW remains a solid business that should do well over the next 5 to 10 years, and should rebound from these levels in the next 1 year I would expect.

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mikebrisy
Added 7 months ago

FWIW GS have stuck to the $40 PT in their first take on today’s result.

With %NM there is zero scope for political interference, beyond implementing the Emerson recommendations to make the voluntary code mandatory. Not a bad thing.

I thought Banducci was arrogant in the Senate hearing. He was asked a simple question and refused to answer it. Disrespectful and everything that gives big business a bad name. I don’t care what people think about Pollies as individuals. In their official capacity they are acting for the electorate and Banducci shouldn’t have been so passive-aggressive. He deserves to be threatened with jail for contempt of the Senate. But it’s all noise. Nothing will happen.

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Bear77
Added 7 months ago

No argument from me about that @mikebrisy - I wasn't a fan of Brad's behaviour either, however I thought that threatening him with jail time was rather pointless seeing as how that was never going to actually happen and both Brad and the senators in the room all knew it was never going to happen, so it was clearly viewed by Brad as an empty threat and appeared to make him even more determined to be obstructive, as in "f@ck this sh!t!". Most CEOs of large businesses see themselves as being a long way above our top pollies in terms of both real power and superior intellect, and that exchange reinforced to me that both sides were aware of that. Not good, but that's the reality.

To be clear, I'm not saying they are smarter, just that they think they are and the pollies are fully aware that they think that.

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Tom73
Added 7 months ago

Well it seems I am good company today @Strawman , @mikebrisy & @Bear77 , I couldn't resist the current price which is down at COVID lows and to my mind driven by political theater that will not amount to anything because it is baseless and poor behavior of a CEO that's leaving anyway. Also, I highly suspect today's results were managed to the downside given the optics of a good result at this time would do more damage.

Until today WOW had not been on my radar, it was just priced out, but at $30.50 it actually offers a chance to beat the market and has a spot in my conservative part of my portfolio. Something very unexpected for the fact I only expected WOW to be at a reasonable price when the whole market went on sale and expected other bargains to offer better opportunities, an unusual opportunity - probably short term, like @mikebrisy it's not a long term out performer, but offers a good rate of return in getting back to levels it normally trades at.

Disc: I Own RL

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Scoonie
Added 7 months ago

You have got to laugh at Mr Banducci.

After the Australian Day merchandise debacle, an ABC interview walkout and a Senate Enquiry train wreck, the March quarter sales and well below expectation. 

And Brad babys response:

“He blamed the sales growth gap that had opened up between Woolworths and Coles in part on the absence of a popular collectables program at his own stores at a time when Coles ramped up with a Pokemon promotion.

Yep, blames it on Coles having Pokemon cards.  

Good to see the end of him, and lets hope there is not another Dickwit like Brad about to run WOW.


WOW ASX: Woolworths’ March quarter sales grew 1.5 per cent, thumped by Coles (afr.com)

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Mujo
Added 7 months ago

To be fair, and having followed the supermarkets for a while, it’s surprising how impactful these promotions and giveaways are on sales.

I shared that same cynicism when i first heard that promotions had that big an impact years ago.

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Bear77
Added 7 months ago

Agreed @Mujo - Pester power from young children should not be underestimated - particularly when it comes to "collectables" and trying to complete the sets before the promotion is discontinued. Our kids are too old for that (17 and 20 now) but we still get requests from other parents to say yes to our free collectables entitlement from the supermarkets for them (since it doesn't cost us any extra). You get them with home delivery orders as well.

However I do share some of @Scoonie 's scepticism in terms of the impact of that on Woolworths' lower-than-expected quarterly performance numbers, because, as @Tom73 says, it's in Woolworths' interests to appear to be struggling at this point in time rather than to be reporting even higher profits, in light of recent events as we have discussed. So it's possible that the figures were massaged downwards instead of upwards for the March quarter. The full year report will be far more important than one quarterly.

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Remorhaz
Added 7 months ago

Taking a quick look through some of the other investment banks updated broker reports on WOW since May 1st - many of whom have released multiple subsequent broker updates since the 1st (e.g. MS 4 updates, GS 2, JPM 4) - I'm basing the below summary on their latest reports (e.g. JPM's @ 4AM this morning)

Macquarie: Outperform 12mth PT $35

Morgan Stanley: Underweight PT $31

Goldman Sachs: Buy PT $39.40

UBS: Neutral PT $32.50

JP Morgan: Neutral PT $31.40

BOFA: $32.50

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UlladullaDave
Added 7 months ago

I will take a guess that as long as there is the potential of a ~$500m block sale of whatever is left of WOW's stake in EDV on the table none of these sell side research reports will be saying anything that might upset WOW.

It seems like everyone in the last couple of days is talking about how they're buying WOW. I'm not sure I'm ready to join the herd yet.

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Tom73
Added 7 months ago

A podcast with ASA company monitors for WOW, pre Q1 results.

ASA monitors are tasked to monitor the company on behalf of ASA members and vote proxies and meet with management to discuss issues - often these discussions revolve around the treatment of small shareholders, business performance and remuneration report. They know the company well so worth listening to, but many may not agree with some of their points or align with their views.

Australian Shareholders' Association | Navigating the aisles of power (youtube.com)

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