Am I that predictable @Rapstar?

But, yes, yes I will :)

Well.. actually i'm still waiting on my good friends at Gouge and Co, er, I mean S&P, to see if they will include the ETF as part of our subscription.

They have this weird delineation between Exchange Traded Products and Exchange Traded Funds (the difference being fairly pedantic in my view), which is why you can see some ETFs on Strawman (such as BetaShares NASDAQ 100 ETF ASX:NDQ), but not others (like iShares Physical Gold ETF ASX:GLDN).

But, assuming they allow it, I will make ASX:VBTC a fairly chunky position, as it is for me in real life.

As an aside, I've had all kinds of trouble gaining exposure via my SMSF to the underlying. The banks have all these capital controls because, according to them, the only use case is scam and crime.. ugh. Anyway, I did buy a load of the Monochrome BTC ETF (ASX:IBTC) because they have this ability to do an in-kind redemption (ie buy units in the ETF and then redeem for the underlying BTC, instead of selling for cash). It's a costly and roundabout way of being able to self-custody the asset, but hopefully allows me to do what I want. I'll keep you posted on how it goes.

I considered IBTC as well, but the high management fee gave me pause for thought.

Can you expand on what you want to do in your post above @Strawman ? If you want self-custody, why not do that directly instead of buying the Monochrome ETF? Why pay the relatively high management fee, instead of buying something like IBIT overseas (or VBTC when it launches, IF it is a good alternative with a far lower management fee?)? Thank you.

It's all just a convoluted workaround @thunderhead

Ideally, I'd just transfer the cash to a local exchange, buy the BTC and send it off to cold storage. Much lower brokerage fee, no admin or management fees, and zero counterparty risk. Frankly, one of core innovations with this tech is that it requires no counterparty or middleman!

Anyway, I cant do that because my bank will only allow me to transfer $10k/month to a "crypto" exchange. After ringing around every bank I could think of, it seems to be a policy that they have all adopted. Ostensibly it's for my protection, which is a bit rich coming from institutions that have repeatedly been found to engage in money laundering and scams...but let's not go there :)

Interestingly, I note that NAB and others have recently been making investments in this space (see Zodia Custody investment) and i've heard rumours they are all looking to offer transaction services. I think they've all released that this thing isn't going away, so if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!

So, I could just drip feed my super direct this way, but i wanted to expedite the process. So the plan is to buy units in the Monochrome ETF (check), transfer to an issuer sponsored holding (check), submit an in-specie redemption request (in progress) and get them to send the BTC to my wallet. There's a $500 fee I think, but i'm prepared to pay it if i can get my allocation in one go.

The reason I didnt use the other ETFs is because while many have lower expense ratios, they dont offer the in-kind redemption. And I'm only holding the ETF units for a short period of time so the cost is negligible anyway.

Hope that makes sense -- and, of course, NOT financial advice.

Interesting you are having trouble with SMSF digital asset holdings. I hold $BTC on a cold wallet in my SMSF no problem. But I find holding US $BTC ETFs too convenient, so also hold a chunk in BTCO.

From what I understand @Rapstar, these capital controls are relatively recent. Didn't used to be a problem, and I likewise had no issues for my personal account outside of super.

Maybe we're at the "..and then they fight you" stage? ;)

@Strawman FYI I just got a notification from Global X that from the 1st July they are reducing the fees on both their Global X 21Shares Bitcoin ETF (CBOE:EBTC) and Global X 21Shares Ethereum ETF (CBOE:EETH) to 0.59% (from 1.25%) - presumably to price match VanEck's new ASX:VBTC ETF - all of which have a lower MER than Monochrome's CBOE:IBTC 0.98% p.a (I know you don't plan to hold for long so it likely doesn't matter - but there's options ...)

They (Global X) also say that for both their ETF's they support:

Authorised Participant Creation / Redemptions: In-kind and cash

Physical Redemption Available to Holders: Yes

Thank you @Strawman. I’m not that bright, so I will have to take some time to digest all the info there!

Any reason for BTCO over the others @Rapstar? I have a small position in IBIT which I am still accumulating.

VBTC has a management fee of 0.59% p.a. Still have to dive in to see how to stacks up against the existing alternatives here and overseas, but I would welcome any views from those far more ahead on their crypto exposure than I am.

OK, just getting back to this with a few thoughts/clarifications -

a.) I guess cryptos still have a "wild west" element in the perception of traditional institutions and lawmakers, and in many senses are also direct a threat to them, so there will always be an element of regulation and control, though the asset class (particularly Bitcoin) seems to be gaining mainstream adoption rapidly already, so this may change over the course of time when the full-fledged "acceptance" stage is reached.

b.) I may have missed this in your previous musings about Bitcoin, but why do you prefer to hold your BTC directly instead of maintaining exposure via an increasing number of "paper" options? Is that because you want to maintain control and ownership of it outside of the traditional financial system - if so, is it motivated by "doomsday" prep of the kind the most staunch gold bugs proffer i.e. hold actual gold bullion instead of "paper" gold in the event the world goes to hell in a handbasket?

c.) $10k/month sounds like plenty to work with, at least to someone like me. Can't you achieve a full transfer of your total intended consideration to your chosen exchange over a number of months and keep accumulating Bitcoin, akin to dollar-cost-averaging into an ETF? What is the blocker there - you have a huge lumpsum that you want to convert to Bitcoin immediately?

Thank you for your time as always @Strawman. Like it or not, Bitcoin and cryptos are fascinating!

@Rapstar same for me. My SMSF auditor just wants me to log in every 30 June and take a screenshot to show that it’s still there. In my case, the bitcoin is an investment in the end of FIAT currency so I’m not selling ;) (maybe at least not until I can buy an ocean going yacht and sail away or until the Government changes the Super rules … I reckon the latter is more likely).

Afraid I can’t get excited about these crypto ETFs apart from the fact that they are making it easier for more people (& institutions) to get easy access to a scarce item (which hopefully drives price up a bit). I already don’t like the fact that there is no yield / earnings / cashflow from the BTC let alone paying someone a % of it each year to custody. I think I’d rather buy one of these things https://heatbit.com/ if I had a couple of K spare rather than the ETF.

DISC: Held (in cold storage)

@thunderhead -- there's no doomsday element to the thesis for me. I just think there are lessons from the FTX debacle and prefer to custody it myself. Why not? it's easy, free and insanely secure.

Also, I don't have a giant SMSF fund (sadly), but just wanted to do as a lump sum.

They waived the management fees for the first 6 months, and I like the fact the ETF price is 1/1000 th of a bitcoin, making it easy for me to translate form Bitcoin price to ETF price....

The big factor for me is convenience and self-custody risk.

Ah yes @Rapstar, I did notice the price denomination on BTCO and wished all the ETFs made it as easy to translate :D.

Convenience is a big factor for me too - I didn't go deep into the weeds, but settled on IBIT as the largest and most liquid instrument with the lowest management fee (pending any temporary discounts/waivers).

Will you continue to hold overseas ETFs, or does it make sense to consolidate/concentrate all holdings into a locally-listed instrument like VBTC (and I'm sure, like in the US, more competing offerings from the likes of Betashare will likely emerge too in due course).

Thank you for your responses in advance.

Thanks @Strawman. Good to know the world is not imminently ending :)

No doubt about experiences like FTX pushing serious investors in Bitcoin to push for self-custody - I was getting more at your motivations for owning your Bitcoin directly as opposed to maintaining exposure through vehicles like these ETFs from reputable and established providers (I know you are nerding out crypto, while plebs like me are keeping it casual, at least thus far). They even say the security around the bitcoins owned by these funds is "institutional grade", which has an air of reassurance about it!