@edgescape , I have been poking around to find out more detail around powercloud, but am not getting too much useful information. I get your concern around Kraken, but I'm not quite there yet. I realised that:

1. I do not really understand both the Hansen Suites (Energy & Utilities and Communications) and the scope/coverage of the suites from an IT-solution perspective. Downloaded the "product guides" from the HSN website, but it is mostly high-level fluff, the sort of brochures I used to get from IT vendors in my previous life, and which goes straight to the bin. Lots of "benefits" but describes very little of the solution itself.
2. Ditto with powercloud - the Tube diagram is a super high-level view of modules/functionality, but there is at least some basic structure/logic to the overall suite.
3. Once a better understanding of the scope and coverage of both Hansen Suites and powercloud is obtained, we can theoretically overlay them and identify the overlaps and new functionality - this then should enable me to make better sense of management commentary on powercloud integration/remediation/Hansenisation etc and the go-to-market strategy for powercloud vis-a-vis the Hansen Suite.
4. This should the enable a better understanding of Kraken as a competitor to the combined Hansen Suite/powercloud solution - the Kraken website is also all high-level fluff unfortunately.

Have you found any Hansen Suite Solution Maps, Solution Architecture Diagrams or similar? Basically a 1 pager that shows the modules, key functionality/processes within each module, the high-level integration between the modules? The WHAT-does-the-damn-thing-do-on-a-page, essentially.

Thought I would ask before I ask Investor Relations. I am not confident I will get anything meaningful, but figured that there was no harm asking and be surprised - worse they can do is to tell me to piss off.

The one thing I did find out on the powercloud website is that Accenture is one of their System Integration partners. Being ex-Accenture, that gives me decent confidence that powercloud is at least not a mickey mouse solution ...!

I believe there was some API info for Kraken on the web somewhere on how to integrate with EV systems if you search hard enough.

From that info I believe Kraken sniped most of Powercloud Flex customers which is their EV solution (which is in process of being EOL according to some German websites)

Again, Hansen hasn't been forthcoming in their comments and I spent lots of time reading and finding nothing about Powercloud product strategy or roadmap (which I bolded since that is very important ) in all the transcripts since acquisition except stuff about positive EBITDA before giving up (yes I combed through all of them). So now I have questions about management and lack of disclosure here added to lack of understanding about Powercloud products.

The only plus is they got Powercloud at a good price. But without the product roadmap or even a "Powercloud for dummies" I still can't see the growth here and that's why the current multiple makes no sense and to me breaks the thesis.

@jcmleng I hope you can add further info than me. Especially when you are already invested so even more important you try to dig further.

@edgescape understood and roger that. Your concerns have made me rethink how I am thinking about powercloud - a really good thing to challenge my thesis.

On reflection, I think I have not actually been too concerned with powercloud, for the following reasons:

1. The acquisition is barely a year old, to the day I think. Having had some direct M&A experience from an IT perspective, the digesting of the acquisition takes time to practically work through. It is thus, still very early days.
2. I have so far, had no issues with managements entry price, strategic rationale and the banking of the post acquisition basics - headcount rationalistion, admin cutbacks, the "Hansenisation" etc. The Year 1 focus on these basics and banking in the quick wins is absolutely the right thing to focus on. The ability to bank the quick wins has provided further downside buffer from the buffer created by the low acquisition cost. Thus far, have seen no evidence of any red flags to cause worry.
3. Any actual rationalisation/merger/integration of the solution itself is typically a Year 2 onwards activity, so not having much information thus far is not a surprise nor issue. We would typically keep running BAU and make big solution changes well into Year 2 and beyond. That nothing has been forthcoming thus far is not a worry yet.
4. The touted management rationale for powercloud is as a beach head for expansion into the DACH market. This makes sense to me although information on the how has not been forthcoming. Again, not a biggie thus far as this has been the same approach with prior HSN acquisitions.
5. HSN's track record for acquisitions have been outstanding. Nothing to suggest, thus far anyway, that this is going to be the first black mark on that record.
6. Can't be dead sure, but I don't believe HSN went into too much post acquisition commentary - once acquired, they get on with digesting the acquisition and over time, they don't talk about it anymore other than how it helped win new contracts. Nothing to suggest it will be or should be different this time.

Many solution rationalisation scenarios are possible (1) they rip the good parts out of powercloud and bolt them to the Hansen Suite (2) move powercloud customers over to the Hansen Suite and progressively ditch powercloud, using the EOL as the reason/excuse (3) keep powercloud as a separate offering from Hansen Suite indefinitely (highly unlikely I think) or (4) a bit of everything, eventually culminating in 1 approach over say 5 or so years. Given what I think is a reasonably complex solution, any rip outs or migration is not going to be a small job.

Regardless, it will take at least 3-5 years to complete whatever technical direction they take.

Kraken might not even be a consideration or concern right now as the focus is fully on digesting powercloud. I am also thinking that rather than powercloud vs Kraken, the bigger issue is Hansen Suite (enhanced with powercloud bolt ons) vs Kraken. Thats a much bigger issue to grapple with. Given the retention rates and continued winning of new contracts, it is also not an immediate concern for me.

Will wait and digest the upcoming 1HFY25 results and see how things have evolved. Think I will also ask the question: "What is management's 12 to 24M approach/strategy to powercloud?" - any response to that will be quite informative I think!

Discl: Held IRL and in SM

FWIW this is the bit I'm referring to where Andrew "dodged" the questions from one analyst about structure of revenue and hence a possible segway to quality of their offerings. Unfortunately Andrew just mentions it is a SAS model, services etc... without going through the nitty gritty.

I also hate Linkedin, but I notice there isn't much activity on Powercloud or any videos where I can get a feel of the product. The only option is to travel to Germany to that E-world 2025 conference.

My conclusion is they are just buying up German, Austrian and CH real estate and doing some cross-selling as mentioned, and not really serious about developing Powercloud.

Don't get me wrong, I'm trying to see if Hansen is better value than say Gentrack as I've been thinking of selling out. But I'm not sure now. This Powercloud acquisition seems to be pretty "cloudy" - excuse the pun". If so, there could be potential writedowns like with CSL and Vifor.

We already saw it with Powercloud Flex and I guess a few brave souls here bought that dip for an arb of a couple of dollars.

Also for an example of "product roadmap", you can go to one of the top-tier enterprise software firms like SAP and Oracle (Yes that most hated software company in the world has a plan for their products so maybe it is a "buy")

They give a roadmap with product versions and features spanning 5 years as well as when current versions get EOL'd. Here's an example I found.

Product Roadmap is something I need to start using when looking at tech companies before diving in...

@jcmleng Another good question to Hansen is why Powercloud is not making any large logo wins. Because this is what is needed to drive growth rather than customers installing smart meters.

Kraken/Octopus already scored a partnership with Maingau Energie as documented in my last post.

If Powercloud was the leading market brand in Germany as claimed by some analysts and Hansen, this partnership should have been "in the bag" for Hansen.

Why did Kraken win this partnership with Maingau Energie and not Powercloud/Hansen?

Where was Powercloud while this partnership was in the market?

What is the implication of Maingau resellers such as Yippie Energie on Powercloud implementations? Will they move to Kraken so they are more integrated with Maingau?

This further underscores the lack of clarity behind Powercloud's offerings and why there is only a one sentence comment at the bottom of the business update.

@edgescape , all very good and valid questions!

However, following some deep diving on the HSN acquisitions over the weekend (see separate post), and if ~16 years of HSN acqusition history repeats itself, I do not think we will get too many, if any, further disclosures on powercloud that will go anywhere close to providing any answers to your questions ..

Given the good management track record on acquisitions, having made better sense of the history, and accepting my fate as a small-time retail investor, I think I can live with this ...

Discl: Held IRL and in SM