Forum Topics CSL CSL ASX Announcements

Pinned straw:

Added 2 months ago

Morning everyone. There’s been a lot of doom and gloom around CSL lately with the CEO turnover, the $700M restructuring hit, and Morningstar capitulating on their Fair Value (slashing it to $210).

But looking at the recent institutional flow data, it looks like we are witnessing a textbook wealth transfer.

The Sellers (Impatient Growth): The funds dumping CSL right now (like Platypus and some global growth funds) are doing so because the hyper-growth narrative is broken. With margins looking capped around 52%, CSL can't deliver the 20%+ EPS compounding those mandates require.

The Buyers (Patient Value): But look at who is soaking up all those dumped shares in the low $140s. Strict contrarian value managers like Allan Gray and Perpetual are suddenly flocking to the stock. Add to that CSL's own management aggressively executing their $750M buyback right at these depressed levels.

The value guys aren't buying a turnaround; they are buying an elite, defensive ~16% ROE engine that is suddenly trading at a massive discount because the "growth" premium has been stripped out.

Is anyone else tracking this institutional rotation? Do you think Allan Gray and the value funds are making a brilliant contrarian play here, or are they just catching a falling knife? Would love to hear your thoughts.

Solvetheriddle
Added 2 months ago

@Raseekingalpha ive written extensively about CSL over the last couple of years. so will keep it brief. The outcome we have here is dramatically falling returns on marginal investment dollars, with extensive debt used to keep ROE and eps up. so a few charts. Below are eps revisions for the last 3 years. so what analysts are usually wrong, but to me, this shows consistently failed expectations. needs to turn.

08aeb8134481b94bee2c123a4b278fdac246bd.png

Below is one of my favourite charts that uses capital employed, ie ND as well. Notice the trend. now approaching the cost of capital. needs to improve. note CSL was net cash + in 2022 now has US$9b net debt. Pharma usually should have very little debt.


a90452af4405a428452f7fcc0e27a008c7d459.png

Next point, pharma is tricky, Novo Nordisk is the leader in the blockbuster drug of the decade GLP-1 (Ozempic), huge market, etc etc, trades at a PE of 10X. similar eps downgrades to CSL , not converting goals.

i dont really care what various fund managers do, or MS revisions. its simply a case of CSL needing to improve returns on capital, which have been disappointing for quite a while. The market gave them the benefit of the doubt for quite a while (and so did i) since, well they are CSL, but time is up.

first move, they need to hold guidance; secondly, consistently show better returns on capital.

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mikebrisy
Added 1 day ago

@Solvetheriddle you were absolutely right on this.

With the trifecta of M&A, R&D, and facilities investments results now on full display, the $CSL Board have now shown for at least 5 years that they are poor allocators of capital.

Of course, a remark like that could be misconstrued as implying that success in pharma is something a good manager or board should be able to assure. It is not. It is a risky game. And even the best can fail at it.

And I think it is really important to always be honest about that if you are investing in pharma.

Of course, what you expect from a pharma board of a large company, is that as they place their bets across multiple R&D, licensing, and M&A plays, they’ll get enough right to achieve overall attractive returns.

That’s what you’re paying them for. If they show that they cannot do that, then you have to ask why are they still there?

This is much bigger than just putting in another CEO. The board has endorsed a decade of multiple capital investment decisions, across 2, now 3, and soon 4 CEOs.

As soon as the new CEO is in, there needs to be major board renewal.

Disc: Not held


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Goldfish
Added 2 months ago

The chart below is shamelessly stolen from a Hotcopper post. But pretty much sums up my opinion.

5 years ago CSL was priced at a high multiple and the market was expecting rapid growth. It delivered consistent growth every year, but not as high as expectations.

Now CSL is priced at a considerably cheaper multiple. Cheaper even than many stodgy, slow-growing companies like the supermarkets. Very little growth is priced in

It's a very simple investment case IMO

b9371ef3c26895815f922aa6ea14d675b353bf.png

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Rick
Added 2 days ago

@Goldfish when you say it’s a very simple investment case, are you saying you consider CSL a buy?

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