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Pinned straw:

Last edited one year ago

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A Time for Some Extra Perspective

As a young schoolboy in Australia’s bicentennial year of 1988 I have some hazy recollections of being introduced to a narrative. It was the bicentennial of the arrival of the First Fleet, but I also remember ‘learning’ that Captain Cook ‘discovered’ Australia and had a vague notion that this had occurred a few years before. He did of course, but in the same way that I ‘discovered’ compound interest, cloud storage, or Krispy Kreme donuts — I have found such experiences have enriched my life, but they were personal discoveries from which I can make no pretence of having been the first person to do so.

So too was Australia very much a personal discovery for the Yorkshireman — in that First Nations people had beaten him to the punch by some 65,000 years. Later of course there were others including Melanesian peoples, Austronesian peoples, and the Dutch, who had also beaten Cook variously by many millennia to centuries.

Truthfully, what I really liked about it all was a catchy tune featuring Botany Bay that you sung loudly in the same accent you’d use if you were auditioning for the lead role in My Fair Lady. I really loved that song.

These are silly and slightly cringey recollections. Thankfully Australia and the world moved on and the concept of our identity is now more evolved and inclusive. In finding the above picture on eBay I see that my Dad’s prophecy that the medallion every single Australian student got given “might be worth a lot of money one day” has not yet come to pass. If you missed out but have $14 plus p&h, then miss out no more.

However, looking back, it is a reminder that:

  1. Narrative is only ever one side of a story; and
  2. Being too concise can foster inaccurate shorthand that is too easily mistaken for truth.


Before my interest in Anteris I know one strong bias or intellectual shorthand I was using was equating the United States FDA’s approval with the words “proven” or “safe”. Conversely, anything without out FDA approval was “experimental” or “unproven” and, “unsafe” or, at least, of “unknown safety”.

It’s a bit beside the point that I’d like to make here that the definitions of these words, and their cultural contexts, can differ. I remember seeing an interview on TV with a person suggesting that if aspirin was invented today, rather than in 1853, it probably wouldn’t get FDA approval for doctors to dispense — let alone be sold in supermarkets. It’s an interesting thought experiment to ask the same of ethanol. Or refined sugar. What would the outcome be if such things were inventions or discoveries of 2023 looking to get FDA approval? It is also true that not everyone trusts governments in the first place.

However, I’m very middle-of-the-road on these things. I genuinely believe that the food and drug regulatory bodies of wealthy, stable, modern democracies value both the scientific process and the safety of their citizens. They just don’t have a monopoly on these values.

At present, at least 27 human beings have had their lives and health significantly improved by Anteris’ DurAVR. For many it has been a functional cure for their aortic stenosis, and for some it has saved them from fairly imminent death. All outcomes which have been achieved without the FDA’s approval for commercial sale.

The breakdowns and dates for these 27 individuals is as follows:


If there is a spectrum of experimentation — where Elon is blowing up every second rocket in the early days of SpaceX on one end — then Anteris is much more at the other end. The one which involves ticking boxes and cutting red tape. This isn’t some reckless or fanciful fishing expedition.

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Captain James Cook was a significant figure whose achievements included being the first to document and map a voyage on the eastern coast of Australia. He has historical importance for Australia and the world, but he is not alone in having that status.

Cook also had a fairly good idea of what he was looking for. He was exploring a finite space and had something of a sense of the parameters. He knew he was going to be threading the needle at some point east of New Holland and west of New Zealand. There was a very limited range of outcomes. So too with Anteris. Most of the discoveries have already occurred now. This is much more about getting it all down on paper.

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Hollandia Nova detecta, 1644 — by French cartographer Melchisédech Thévenot

Metis
Added one year ago

I’m sorry to say @Strawman my highlight of the expo was having an ice cream for the first time as a 2 year old. Unfortunately i don’t remember the experience but my mum reminds me of the criticism she got from a stranger for feeding a 2 y.o processed sugar@PabloEskyBruhnot sure if it was FDA approved then.

I first invested back in the day in admedus (now anteris) for about 4 years in 2012. It was the start of my investing career and I finally didn’t have the stomach for the continued capital raises and sold for quite some loss. (Fortunately i didn’t make much money back then so it was minimal, apart from the opportunity cost).

This is a huge market. My interest peaked during my time as a trainee in St Vincent’s hospital Sydney where I anaesthetised quite a few. So I bought more. Sadly I had no understanding of where a company was in its lifecycle during this time. Recently Wollongong hospital where I now work has started doing TAVI’s in the private hospital. My mate and colleague has come back from training in the UK for them where he did 8 a day. Yes you heard right… that is at least 4 times the efficiency of a standard aortic valve repair, where we would get 1 done a day paired with a smaller case. (I am not a cardiac anaesthetist now for the record and these are my training days). Note that there is different patient populations suitable for each procedure TAVI (which is a minimally invasive procedure) vs Open heart surgery. My understanding is that there is limited initial difference with stroke and immediate mortality depending on the study however there is a much greater rate of re-operation within 5 years. So if you are super old you get a TAVI if you are younger you get open heart surgery. Correct me if I’m wrong @PabloEskyBruh but this is what Anteris is trying to change with its technology, the length of time for re-operation.

Recently I asked the procurement nursing unit manager at wollongong private hospital what was the driving process of which TAVI device they used. I think they use Medtronic and one other I have forgotten sorry. But the main reason is they will use a heap of stents/pacemakers and the company will give them an amount of money to spend on whatever they want due to their loyalty. They often use this for TAVI’s. So the companies become entrenched in a hospital.

I was trying to find out the number of competitors and it is pretty large.

My question to you? Is the bull case that this will increase the number of years for re-operation and therefore become the dominant use case? If that hypothesis comes true this is a massive company. With the in human uses currently (2022) does that mean we will be waiting until at least 2027 to really understand this?

Cheers and thanks for reviving an old flame/nightmare ;)

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PabloEskyBruh
Added one year ago

Thanks @Metis. This was great to read. I can only grab a couple of seconds atm and want to give this the proper reply it deserves. Will post again in coming days.

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PabloEskyBruh
Added one year ago

@Metis, my shares also started life as Admedus ones, circa 2015.  So I possibly even bought yours second-hand.  Rest assured it was still a struggle for quite a few years after that but.  I think my first parcels were at the equivalent of $75 per share in today’s shares (with 2 x 1 to 10 consolidations since then).

It would be telling only half the story to claim that Admedus was a completely different company back then, but I can say that Anteris are now singularly focused on a completely different product.

The Admedus I bought was a strange conglomerate of 3 businesses:

  • an early stage experimental vaccine platform;
  • A low margin and unremarkable medical infusions business; and
  • A heart tissue patching product called Cardiocel made using the the ADAPT platform.


Admedus’ foray into TAVR at that stage was in the mere conceptual phase of the exploratory spectrum.  It was a complete pipe-dream.

Fast forward to now and the vaccine platform was sold at a loss to the Chinese.  The infusion business also off-loaded for fair value (which was little).  Anteris still owns the IP for ADAPT (it is the bovine collagen product in our DurAVR TAVR) but we have since licensed the Cardiocel suite to a mob better-placed and structured to sell it bulk to North American hospitals.

I’d say that for at least 5 years now CEO Wayne Paterson’s focus has been solely on TAVR.  I now think he was 100% right in this, but there was — and in the eyes of the market still is — some undeniable baggage with Anteris.  I think ASX investors are right in thinking a leopard doesn’t change its spots.  This has been a money pit.  Frankly, there has been a lot of thesis creep. But yes (here come those dangerous words), this time it’s different.

I think this is a multi-billion dollar company waiting for the market to realise this and price it accordingly.  I call my $78 valuation conservative because:

  • it is based on Anteris achieving only 10% market share by 2027;
  • That market share does not even include the valve-in-valve market in which Anteris has a huge edge (more news on this next week hopefully);
  • That market share does not really include  significant TAVR cannibalisation of the SAVR market (ie, TAVR patients getting much younger); and
  • That it is also based on a very conservative 20% profit margin. CEO Paterson has been coy about profit margin projections, but I think we will scale well and these margins will be much higher.


But that is still not the bull case.

You are right that there are a number of companies that are competing in the TAVR space.  Thankfully only two of them matter, Edwards (estimated to have been 65-75% of US market share) and Medtronic (almost all the rest).

My bull case is based on Anteris proving clinical superiority over both of these companies’ TAVR offerings — with longevity of the device itself being but one component.  Commissural alignment is another (although that, of itself, will probably not be a unique barrier for the next generation of TAVR devices/catheter systems).  However, the most important feature of its clinical superiority appears to be in fluid dynamics.  This appears to be a function of DurAVR’s one piece design (also involving minimal stitching) which closely mimics our native aortic valves.

It’s this last component, I think, which is crucial to Anteris’ value.  And what Edwards or Medtronic will be paying for by acquisition.

Which brings me to the question of will we actually have to wait in 2027 (and commerciality) to get the right price?  I doubt it.  I’m expecting the first serious offers for Anteris to come within 3 months of the 30 day EFS data to be published next quarter. By serious I mean at premiums 100% or above current market price.

Best case scenario from there is a bidding war, bolstered by wider US investor sentiment (whether through the slightly clunky vehicle of the new US ADR or a later dual-listing on NASDAQ).

Personally I will be happy with just anything north of my conservative valuation, but of course I would very much prefer we don’t leave too much value on the table.  I’d be thrilled if I retained ownership in anything that came close to being a dominant player in TAVR in 2027/2028, but I don’t think it will happen that way.

Paterson is fond of telling the story of Medtronic’s acquisition of Corevalve in 2009 for $700 million USD [link].  Prices in general — and the TAVR TAM itself — have gone up since then. At that time that company had even less FDA approval than Anteris has now (but they had implanted a couple hundred more humans than Anteris). Anteris will be close to, or over, 40 humans by end of this year, with around half of those patients being in North America.  That’s more than enough for a big player to pull the buy trigger.

I hope I’ve made sense @Metis, thanks again for your interest and comments.

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Metis
Added one year ago

@PabloEskyBruh I have been on holiday and I try to keep my holidays share free so as to actually enjoy them!! Well to keep the other half happy I’m not reading all the time anyway…

Thanks so much for the detailed reply, it will prompt me to look into the specifics of why this will a better option as the market it just so huge that a disrupter will make a hell of a lot of money. What I’ve gleaned is at the moment there is a consistent stable vision from Wayne Paterson and the way forward will likely be a buy out. If it happens to be even better and we avoid a buy out then well watch out late 2020’s….

What I do struggle with is the heterogeneity of studies… and direct randomised control trials comparing devices (apart from that CHOICE trial with Edwards and Medtronic) but this will always be hard and the uncertainty creates opportunity at the expense of surety. I look forward to delving back in, the opportunity and growth in this market is too hard to ignore.

Once again thank you for this information, I sometimes work with the cardiologist that does them here do you have any questions you would like me to ask when I next see him?

Cheers,

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PabloEskyBruh
Added one year ago

Just an update re publicised patient numbers, Anteris are now as 39:

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Strawman
Added one year ago

I still have my bicentennial coin somewhere @PabloEskyBruh, and was.likewise told it would be "worth a lot one day". Haha

Then again, it was the people issuing the coin that were saying that..so, yeah.

(The highlight of expo88 for me was getting to sit in and talk to KIT from Knight rider. My 13 year old self was in heaven)

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PabloEskyBruh
Added one year ago

Haha, well we got it for free if I recall correctly, so probably still a good ROI.

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