I first came across this company through a straw from @wini and thought it looked interesting, but wasn't totally confident of the impacts of Covid, and was always reluctant to buy on the enthusiasm of a good annoucement. I have just used the recent pullback to buy into this in RL. I am not confident of putting a valuation on it as it will depend on CardHero uptake and rollout, but I am confident enough that if it works out like I think it will then it will be worth much more than $0.17.
I think their expense8 software is a pretty nice package and is and will continue to be a solid earning channel for the company that enables it to maintain positive (or thereabouts) cash flow. This channel is still being impacted by covid restrictions, lack of travel trips etc. but It does seem to be popular with government departments as evidenced by the recent contract wins and lack of churn once a contract is won. Pre-covid ARPU was $25 and now it is $17, but total users are increasing and I think this number will continue to drift back up as movement increases this year.
The exciting thing for me about 8CO is there new product CardHero, which has just gone live this quarter with non-profit Life Without Barriers (LWB), who are part of the NDIS network. A while back I read an interview with the CEO about how this product was built in partnership with LWB and what the value proposition for them was (see excerp below). This got me interested in the company initially, I have used the recent sell off to buy in RL. What I like about CardHero is the benefit to the client and the higher ARPU which is $12/month ($144/yr vs $17-25/yr for expense 8). I have copied a portion of the interview below as it gave me a lot fo confidence that this product will be a winner and likely to lead to rollout beyond LWB in the future.
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Source- CEO interview with Alan Kohler Eureka report (April 2021)
Virtually no churn.
Yeah, virtually no churn. It was all ARPU and that's primarily because a good chunk of our revenue is fixed. It’s platform fees or it’s annual fees for use of the system, but there is a proportion that's transactional and that obviously had a dip, there was less travel therefore there was less trips in our system, there was less credit card usage. Right now we've got that back up to a bit over $17 and we can see that trending back up, so that's the sort of ARPU at the moment for Expense8. With CardHero, we've got the first deal signed and all that has been released. That's for 3,500 cards and it's approximately $500,000 per year is the revenue on that contract. So it works out to be I think about $10.90 per card per month, is the ARPU, so that’s a hundred and…
Per month?
Per month.
Right, what’s that, five or six times the ARPU, is that right?
Yeah, correct. Yeah. It's a much higher ARPU in this space
And is Life Without Barriers happy with that?
Yeah, they are. What we're building is very sophisticated, very complex. And what it does is not just Life Without Barriers, but the not-for-profit space in general, their focus is the hour of care and maximising the hour of care is an important phrase for them.
Explain that hour of care. What do you mean?
If you've got people in a share house, there's typically three, four, five people who are living in this house and there are carers and there's almost always a carer on duty in the house and their job is to care for the individuals. I guess the concept is they want to make sure that they're spending as much of that time that they’re with the people with disabilities actually caring for them and not doing administration and trying to find receipts for the money they spent for the client that they've got. So they're very focused on that. That’s $12 a month, this is half an hour’s worth of carer time of which we're going to save a lot more than that by taking away a huge administration burden and then letting them focus on looking after the people with disabilities.
How many clients did you say you have for Expense8?
Expense8, depending on how you cut it exactly, but we've got over 150 government agencies using the solution, and then a lot of large corporates. It's just under 200 individual customers using Expense8, and about 157,000 users. (173K@ $17/user Q2 2022)
Is there any reason why all of those customers won't convert to CardHero?
Look, I don't know if it makes sense for every single customer but it certainly does for a lot of the customers to use it. We've had a lot of good discussions with our existing customer base. As you can see it's a large starting point, which is fantastic. And probably the other important thing to note is we have 157,000 users of our system. So they're the people within these government agencies and corporates who have a credit card, or who spend money on the company's behalf regularly enough to then get a credit card. Only about 10 per cent of people in a company get a credit card normally, so 90 per cent of people don't get a credit card, they spend their own money and get that money back and that's a great target market for CardHero. So those people who are spending money right now, the companies and the agencies, they know it's not a good way to treat employees and you have to spend the money now, if you take a flight. If I came down to see you in Melbourne, the flights, the accommodation, just for a day, is sort of $5-700, you've then got to apply to the company to get that money back, get that approved, wait for the next pay run. You can be waiting a month to get your money back. With these CardHero cards in hand you can put the money on the card beforehand, and not have to go through that process.
Is the card labelled CardHero or is it labelled a Visa card or something?
It's a CardHero card. It is backed by MasterCard, through EML, so it’s our design.
I presume most of the companies that they dish out corporate credit cards to 10 per cent of the employees, because they don't trust the other 90 per cent. Is there some greater safety in your CardHero that will give them comfort and confidence to do that?
Yeah, a hundred percent. You're right. It may not even be trust, but there's a liability on those cards and it's either mistakes, or unfortunately, there is fraud in this world, but yeah, you can't give a card to every single person. Our cards will inherently have no value on them and I'm talking like in the corporate space now, it's a slightly different use case to the not-for-profits. These cards will have zero dollars, so I can give it to every person in my company and it sits there with no dollars on it. If I try and tap it, nothing will happen. There's no money on it. It's kind of like a gift card. If you walk into a supermarket and get a gift card, there's no value on it until you walk up to the checkout and load up $50 or whatever it is that you want to give to somebody, it's very similar to that.
What will happen then is you can request money to be put on the card. I can say “Alan, I'm coming to Melbourne I need $500 for the flights, accommodation, taxis”, and I can itemise that through the system, which already does all of this by the way. I can request all that and you, as my manager can say, “yep, I approve that” and then money will be instantly transferred onto my card. That's the first step is I can't spend it unless there's a pre-approved event on that. I can't get drunk at night and accidentally tap it on the wrong thing, pull out the wrong card. I can't make a mistake.
The event is pre-approved as well, is it, not just the amount?
Correct.
Oh, is that right? So you can only tap it at whatever it is, the place that's approved?
Yeah. You can really narrow it down and look, every customer has slightly different use cases, but, you know, the classic example is I need a new laptop. It's going to cost me $3,000. I can approve that and say, you've got $3,000 to spend. You can only spend it at JB Hi-Fi because that's our preferred computer seller for whatever reason and you've got five days to spend it. If you don’t spend it, I'll take the money back.
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