Another great CEO meeting today with Andrew Bond. 8CO is quite well-known here, so I will limit my comments to a few big takeaways with other insights I have gleaned external to the meeting.
The wins in the Public Sector and Non For Profit for Expense8 and CardHero (EML backend) are not to be underestimated. As was discussed on the call, these organisations are very conservative in their procurement practices. So, once you have won customers and have references sites, the ongoing marketing effort is a lot easier than normal B2B.
Just to underscore this point, in the Australian government sector (Commonwealth, State and Local) there are over 2 million employees. $8CO has a total of 182k users, but this includes some big corporates (e.g., $WOW, $AMC), so I am not sure how many Federal users there are (need to dig through annual reports and 4Cs). It sounds like there is a long runway ahead.
Over the short term, we will see 3 growth drivers that are almost certainly locked in with little to no development cost (beyond client implementation) nor much increased overhead:
- Increased activity by existing cardholders. (latest ARPU is $18.60 compared with $24.33 pre-COVID peak. ARPUs are higher for Federal Governement users ($43.3) compared with overall average ($18.60)
- Continued adoption to more staff within current customer departments and agencies
- Adoption by new Department and Agencies (snowball effect)
These alone are going to play out against a set of numbers in FY22 that were COVID-impacted. So there should be some very positive PCP comparisons in the next 6-12 months, which de-risks an investment, which we scruitinise growth and operating leverage unfolding.
Of course, the big prize is the large State Governments, where 1.7m of employees work. So, the ability to translate Commonwealth wins into State wins will be key.
Next is the NDIS, which is a potentially massive opportunity for CardHero. Total NDIS spending is heading north to $40bn and beyond. Control of spending in a way which works for agencies, service providers and customers could be the perfect opportunity. There is also a good chance that findings from the ongoing Disability Royal Commission will provide a tailwind. So watch this space.
In any event, the Not For Profit sector is a big opportunity, with the reference case for Card Hero at Life Without Barriers a marquee client in another sector that is not a sophisticated procurer and where organisations will readily adopt a proven reference cases.
The total NFP sector in Australia involves 600,000 organisations, have a total income of $134bn and are estimated to contribute over $40bn to GDP . These won't all be attractive clients for $8CO, but the largest 0.4% (2000+) have turnover of greater than $100m, and these will be.
Then, on the call, we spoke about universities. Andrew said they already have two uni clients with Expense8 and clearly, unis are a potential major CardHero client for grant management - a major pain point for academics and administrators alike.
So, with a Fintech focused on the public sector, is $8CO the next startup version of $TNE? (Actually, it sounds like it could be a good acquisition target for $TNE, although there might be market power issues?)
I'll conclude with a few key analyses.
The first is from the 2022 Annual Report: showing the growth in users (blue, LHS) and ARPU (organe RHS),
The second show the growth in monthly trips going through Expense8 - this is going to be the driver of strong PCP cycling over the next 4 quarterly reports (I know that is short term, and irrelevant for the long-term investment thesis, but I think it de-risks the investment case in the current climate).
Cash Flow
Next, my usual 4C cashflow analysis.
What's postive about the 4Cs is that they are very clean. This indicates a business that is tightly run. On that note, Andrew is quite understated compared to many small cap CEOs. There is an almost complete absence of flashy investor presentations. That a big green flag for me.
While $8CO is still burning cash and only has about $3.2m left at last report (a level similar to the point at which they last raised capital), we specifically asked Andrew what capital he thought would be required over the next 5 years. He sounded quite confident in responding that there were no plans. (I expect he has been asked this a lot over recent months!)
This makes sense given the following information:
1) Development spend is being reined back, with the big push over the last year on CardHero now complete.
2) As more customers are onboarded, high margin SaaS revenues will continue to grow, which will improve operating leverage
3) Sales and Marketing spend is very low, given the nature of the clients and reliance on "reference sites"
4) While the team has built up to 50 over the last year (c. 50% in development; 30% in customer success and a small number in sales and marketing and management), Andrew doesn't see the need for much to be added.
Thinking further about 4, you would expect to see growth in the Customer Success team, as more customer groups onboard, however, perhaps a flattish profile can be managed in the medium term if there is a lower focus on development.
In conclusion, as @Strawman said at the start of the call, this one appears to be approaching an inflection point, even if there is no clear trend in OpCF below, due to the staff build in development to build up CardHero.
Competition
The big competitors are the large ERP players (SAP, PeopleSoft etc), the Public Sector specialists (TechOne) and the SaaS disruptors (PlanDay). In a comment on competition which was clearly well-rehearsed, Andrew said his favourite customers were the one that already had Travel and Expense management systems from the big players. This was because generally, their "modules" were themselves poorly integrated acquisitions into the ERP, and lacked the flexibility of Expense8.
Make no mistake, it is a competitive space, and so we should not get over-excited by the TAMs in fron the $8CO in Australia. However, they have won marquee Government and NotForProfit clients, they are a local company with a total focus on Australia. They have growth locked in and appear to be well run.
Valuation
This Straw is clearly a Bull Case and it is incredibly hard to value a stock like this.
Revenue is clearly on an upward trajectory, and with $1.585m in 4Q 2022 and with momentum on its side, they have to be looking at $6-9m in FY23, 222m SOI and SP of $0.087, Market Cap is $19.3m.
This gives a revenue multiple for 2023 of 2.1 - 3.2, with the potential for generating EBITDA and P/E multiples within a year or two.
Ownership and Liquidity
While the CEO has a very small holding, and is a professional manager rather than a founder, there appears to be strong insider holdings ov 30%. Andrew has reasonable incentives for the company to perform well, with 3.5m options. He joined in 2017 and has held a number of management positions with $8CO, becoming CEO in 2019, so it is good to see a CEO who has been promoted from within.
The Board are largely unknown to me, so I need to trawl the other straws and do some research here.
Investment Decision
I like $8CO. It is a much smaller firm than I would normally buy. I have taken a very small stake IRL (0.5%) and a larger one on SM (2%). I intend to hold long term, so the very low liquidity doesn't bother me.
If the investment thesis is correct, we should see strong quarterly reports over the next 12 months. If this does not materialise (and I mean above and beyond postive Covid-impacted PCP cycling) then I will consider exiting. If results play out as expected, then I will increase my holding, reviewing progress at each 4C.
I have jettisoned a few of my specy losers IRL recently, and so I am adding a spec buys at time when the market it weak.
Thanks to the other StrawPeople who have written up $8CO and for @Strawman for getting Andrew to today's meeting.
DiscL Held IRL and Buying on SM.